Re: "EGL is the easiest langauge to learn" - Joe Pluta was-> Problem updating Rational Developer for System i for SOA Construction

Tommy.Holden@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Sorry if i missed this somewhere but....

And I'm going to be careful in my responses, because it's clear you're offering your opinion, and I don't want to get into opinion wars.

Joe says "RPG programmers don't need to learn about XML or anything else. They simply define the parameters in their function and EGL does the rest.
"

i beg to differ (i know i took this out of context however...) IMO any RPGer that DOESN'T learn at least *some* XML is gonna be lost using *any* of these processes.

Well, you can learn XML or you can learn JSON, which is the other standard, especially for tightly coupled systems. Bit in either case, you don't need to write code to support either; you should use library functions. EGL has support for all these functions, and RPG has support for XML, either natively through the language or through third-party products like Aaron's.

since the input/output data is in XML it's only natural that you would want to be able to translate data being passed *regardless* of it's format.

I'm not sure I understand this, Tommy - are you talking about something like a communications trace for debugging purposes, or are you talking more like a permanent log? For the latter, I do that at the database layer. But I agree that it would be good to have some sort of logging at the service level of the traffic.

i haven't used EGL personally but here's my limited take on this. i simply *abhor* code generators of any type! (no offense to those who do...you're braver than i am!)

Yeah, 20 years ago I would have had the same sentiment. But then again, 20 years ago I could do everything in an ERP shop with one machine (the System/38) and bisync communications to the mainframe. Now, some shops have the luxury of learning every new technology and every new communications protocol, but most people I know don't want to have to worry about XML namespaces or WSDL configuration; they want to concentrate on the business logic.

In fact, that's what the projcet I'm working on is showing me. I'm going to write three new services this morning. With EGL, I don't have to worry about formatting data or anything like that. I'll write a few lines of EGL in a function that accepts some data, calls an RPG program, and returns the result. I'll generate the WSDL, send it over to the client, and he'll program the interface. Done deal.

So I guess my point is that I don't mind using a code generator for the kind of code that ought to be generated: namely, the plumbing between the pieces. I've written dozens of client/server interfaces over the years, and I don't really want to write anymore. If EGL can do all that for me, then I'm happy to have the help, so I can concentrate on the business logic.

but i *will* echo Aaron's statement, RPG *should* have native GUI capabilities *without* all the extra gyrations, wrappers, etc.

This is the classic example of "It's not gonna happen, so why waste cycles on it?" The more time people spend arguing on a native GUI for the 5250, the less time we spend on implementing real solutions.

Anyway sorry for the long diatribe but in short my opinion remains that any and all programmers RPG or other *should* at least have a rudimentary understanding of transporting data via XML or any other standard that becomes a viable, useful means of data transfer method.

Hey, no problem.

One question, though. You say you hate code generators and you think everyone should understand the transport layer. Okay - you do realize, though, that display files are in effect code generators, right? How well do you actually understand the 5250 data stream? Do you use the DSM APIs, or do you use display files?

It's a bit of a stretch, but I hope you see my point. You're willing to use the workstation gateway software and the RPG compiler to make your life a little easier because you don't really need to know the actual hex codes involved with the 5250 data stream. I'm willing to let EGL do the XML and JSON plumbing for me, because I really don't need to know that part.

Joe