Re: Switching to RDI from SEU

[Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Aaron I'll chime in here 'cuz we just got a BladeCenter S with a JS12 
and, depending upon what the future holds for hardware configurations, 
this may be something that more and more folks are looking in to.

A couple of things here.  The purchase included both the BCS AND the 
JS12.  If a company already had a BCS and just wanted to add a JS12 to 
it, the numbers begin to look pretty "interesting".  In our case the 
base system we got was licensed for 10 users (min for i5/OS) and two 
"developers" (for using RDi and ILE compilers only).

Cost were:

BCS (alone) $8860.00 (6 x 146GB SAS drives for storage)
JS12 (alone) $6246.00 (8GB RAM and 2 x 146 drives for VIOS, etc)
Software, including OS and SWMA $11,826

Now, I don't know how this stacks up for a "production" machine since 
this guy was leased through the developer discount program, but, if you 
already had a BCS to stuff the JS12 into, your JS12 would set you back 
$6246 and your SW would be $11,826 (almost double).

If you had 10 programmers banging on this thing, add another $6360 for 
RDi and $14,360 for ILE compilers for 8 more developers.  Heaven help 
you if you need Heritage compilers and ATDS (more per user charges)  
Full boat, 10 developers, using RDi AND ATDS AND compiling both ILE and 
"heritage" programs would set you back $46,800 ($4680 per user)

This is worst case, of course because of discounts, bundling, etc, etc 
but it is a pretty hefty investment in any case.

Us open source folks chafe a bit at those numbers......

Pete


Aaron Bartell wrote:
> Could you shed any light on the $$ numbers we are talking for small 
> server config?  And by "toolset" do you mean the compilers + RDi + RDi-SOA?
>
> I can't keep up with how IBM prices things.  Another reason why 
> RPGNextGen.com is becoming more and more appealing.  I can only imagine 
> how frustrating it must be for the IBM RDi developers having a great 
> tool and then having their marketing screw it up - just sad.
>
> Aaron Bartell
> http://mowyourlawn.com
>
> Trevor Perry wrote:
>   
> > Aaron,
> >
> > There is still one (small) thing that will ensure that the tools sell. They
> > are still bundled with the hardware for sale. For new boxes and upgrades,
> > the price of the tools is part of the entire sale.
> >
> > That being said, I had a server configured recently and the person doing it
> > missed the numbers - I got back a small server and the software was 8 times
> > the cost of the hardware - yes, 8 times. That was mostly the toolset.
> >
> > Normally, though, the toolset is about 90% of the cost of the server
> > hardware for a small server config (which is higher than ever). I have
> > recently done several, and can not explain the pricing in the configurator.
> > I even asked a prominent (Rational) IBMer to help explain, and that lead to
> > a dead-end. If I were to decide if Rational were in business to make money
> > OR to support their customers for modern toolsets, I would have to choose
> > the former. Which, ironically, the latter will cause the former not to be
> > met.. The recent price 'cuts' that are included in 'bundles', while they
> > have helped a little, really have not come close to the suggestions of the
> > community.
> >
> > Then again, if you order a new Power6 520 server, you ~must~ order the ECS
> > modem. Maybe that is how you download upgrades to the toolset? If you price
> > software high, the customer should expect them to take a long time to
> > download? :-)
> >
> > Trevor
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/9/09 9:34 AM, "Aaron Bartell" <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >     
> > > I think adoption will slow considerably given the fact that there is no
> > > low cost entry into the "new WDSC" (i.e. RDi).  I still firmly believe
> > > IBM is shooting themselves in the foot by approaching it the way they
> > > did without even giving a single-seat-no-charge copy of RDi with every
> > > compiler purchase.  Get it into every shop so it becomes the house-hold
> > > name for doing RPG development, and then when the shop needs more than
> > > one license they get to get out their checkbook (but at this point they
> > > full recognize the ROI).
> > >
> > > A 90-day trial will work well enough for existing WDSC users to
> > > determine if they want to pay for RDi, but I hardly believe it is enough
> > > time for an average SEU RPG programmer to make the switch from scratch.
> > >
> > > It becomes an up-hill battle to educate people on such an excellent tool
> > > (which I believe it to be the best out there) when the only real way
> > > they can experience it is to get out their empty checkbook.  In the past
> > > I have done quite a few articles, sessions, newsletters, etc, promoting
> > > WDSC because it was simply a matter of getting through the politics and
> > > installing it on machines.  How do authors/writers promote it now that
> > > it costs so much?  I really wish IBM would have taken the MyEclipseIDE
> > > approach of charging maybe $50/year/user and then have all support done
> > > through an online forum and let the community resolve most of the issues
> > > instead of having to open up a PMR.  Heck, the IBM'ers on this list are
> > > already doing that to some extent (which I think is absolutely wonderful
> > > btw).
> > >
> > > Those are my thoughts for a Friday :-)
> > >
> > > Aaron Bartell
> > > http://mowyourlawn.com
> > >
> > > Trevor Perry wrote:
> > >     
> > >       
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry - I finally realized you said 95% of THE shop.
> > > >
> > > > I am finding more and more shops are getting over their problems with the
> > > > older versions of WDSC, and are adopting it fresh. If you treat it like it
> > > > IS new, you may be able to convert everyone over!
> > > >
> > > > Good luck,
> > > > Trevor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1/9/09 8:57 AM, "Trevor Perry" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >   
> > > >       
> > > >         
> >   
> >     
>
>