Re: Eclipse bloatware was Re: Format command for externally-described -- RPG400-L

it is so true that these modern IDEs have a learning curve. In college I a
few programming classes where we used SEU. But after I started working full
time, I saw a coworker was using a graphical tool so I asked him what it
was. That turned out to be Code/400. He was also our resident Visual Age
for RPG developer as well. I’m still kinda disappointed I never got to work
with that. But yes Code/400 was worth pushing through the learning curve.

These days I’m using PyCharm and Qt Designer and both have interesting
learning curves. But once you push through it, you become more productive.
RDi is no different.

J

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 10:47 PM Roger Harman <roger.harman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Help Systems (Fortra) offered "SEU Plus" to enhance SEU with a number of
functions. Still shows on their website. Part of Linoma's RPG ToolBox.

Good gawd...
Why tie one hand behind your back with SEU?
When I switched to RDi (years ago), my productivity (after some learning
curve) was at least 50% improved and possibly even 100%.
I used VS Code to edit some Python and shell scripts directly on the IFS
and I thought it was fine - quite nice, actually.
Admittedly, I would use SEU if I had a quick 1-2 line fix but only if RDi
wasn't already open on my PC. But that was rare.

Roger Harman
COMMON Certified Application Developer - ILE RPG on IBM i on Power

-----Original Message-----
From: RPG400-L <rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Jon
Paris
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 3:39 PM
To: RPG programming on IBM i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Eclipse bloatware was Re: Format command for
externally-described

Hi Buck,

Not that I want to encourage anyone to think of SEU as anything other than
the dinosaur it is I have to correct part of your comment.

"SEU is unscriptable. No alternative key bindings, no internal
hooks/extension points and a block mode interface."

There are indeed "hooks/extension points" - you can add your own line
commands - Jeff Olen published an example some time back (
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcpressonline.com%2Fprogramming%2Frpg%2Ftechtip-userdefined-seu-line-commands&data=05%7C01%7C%7C79ebf87d605a4070f6fe08dafb3f8fdb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638098547660034748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=r7J2P7YIlUPB9%2F5d%2Bxjqre715KM3OYukea48cmyCleI%3D&reserved=0
<
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcpressonline.com%2Fprogramming%2Frpg%2Ftechtip-userdefined-seu-line-commands&data=05%7C01%7C%7C79ebf87d605a4070f6fe08dafb3f8fdb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638098547660034748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=r7J2P7YIlUPB9%2F5d%2Bxjqre715KM3OYukea48cmyCleI%3D&reserv
ed=0>). This was a feature that a number of us insisted be made
available before IBM stopped further enhancements to SEU. Don't recall the
release where it came out but the exit point are there.

I have to admit when I looked up Jeff's example I just about died
laughing. The article was published almost 20 years ago - and begins with:

"I know it's not terribly popular these days to be advocating the use of
SEU, but regardless of the benefits of using other IDEs ..."

Nothing changes does it <grin>

Jon P.

On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:04 PM, Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 1/19/2023 5:15 PM, Mihael wrote:

For me ... at the moment ... Eclipse RCP framework is the only way to

go if you want to develop a GUI application (non-browser) in Java.

Bravo Mihael!

It seems to me that my particular workflow in my particular environment

has a great bearing on the editor that I want to use.

As an RPGer doing mostly maintenance, I had a Code/400 script that I

used to pick out the file name on an F-spec, reach out to the IBM system
and pop up a window of check-able column names. Select the ones I want and
I have an instant data structure, SQL SELECT clause, O-specs (remember
those?), even a list of TODO comments that remind me what columns I need to
put on the screen. Code was great for this kind of thing because I could
just open another Code window, work on the script, and then test/use it in
real time in the RPG source member I was working on.

It's possible to do similar things in Eclipse/RDi - access to JT400 is

SUPER POWERFUL - but I have to stop what I'm doing, change mental gears,
get into Java mode, write/deploy/test/repeat until the plugin is Good
Enough. Then I switch back into RPG mode and get back to whatever I was
doing. Very much more disruptive than real time scripting.

I have only recently looked at scripting Liam's extensions to VS Code,

so I have no opinion yet.

SEU is unscriptable. No alternative key bindings, no internal

hooks/extension points and a block mode interface.

--
--buck

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.midrange.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C79ebf87d605a4070f6fe08dafb3f8fdb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638098547660034748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ke%2FCoHxNbgexUI%2B9n3oad5t4efSVaMWScb9KzRGKmoM%3D&reserved=0

Your updates make it better!

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Thanks,

Jason E. Olson
IBM i Engineer/Developer
josys36@xxxxxxxxx
480.223.2952