Re: RPG - I'm not dead yet!

[john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx>]

Well,

I'm not - again and again - going into this discussion.

I'm asking you, why is RPG a GOOD language.
First question, of course: what makes a good language?
Especially, what makes a good business language.
I'm not going to answer that, because i already had lots of discussion about
it.

I have a problem with everybody saying that it's a good language.
Why???
Because it has RLA, chain and the like??
It's not a language feature, it's a platform feature.
Like with support for decimals, like COBOL, RPG supports decimals because it
evolved around a business platform.
Now it's a good thing RPG has decimals, and a bad thing Java has not (not
counting the Decimal class).
But these are not language features.

I suppose then RPG was also a good business language in the 90's (or is it a
good or even the best language since 10 years??).
How can a business language be any good if it doesn't even support dates
(and i don't mean 8-digit decimals).
This is where i have a problem.

















On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jerry C. Adams <midrange@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I'm not nearly as well versed in these things as you and Joe, but why would
> one consider RPG (and here I'm assuming ILE RPG) to be an Achilles' Heel?
> An Achilles' Heel is a weak point (usually a fatal one).  Just because it's
> tied so closely to the system (using, I think, the system's data management
> routines among other things) shouldn't be cause for alarm.  As Joe and
> JHHL,
> among others, have pointed out it always helps to be multilingual.  Makes
> me
> wish I hadn't given up on C those many years ago.
>
> RPG is not a fatal flaw - in my opinion - as long as Toronto keeps growing
> it.  Which they seem intent upon doing.
>
> Jerry C. Adams
> IBM i Programmer/Analyst
> I think that the free-enterprise system is absolutely too important to be
> left to the voluntary action of the market place. - Congressman Richard
> Kelly (FL)
> --
> A&K Wholesale
> Murfreesboro, TN
> 615-867-5070
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of john e
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:21 AM
> To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
> Subject: Re: RPG - I'm not dead yet!
>
> Joe,
>
> Ok, i didn't know that. An array defined as 3u0 is the trick. Thanks!
> In my - rather limited - experience with RPG-to-Java, if a pass a character
> field to Java to a byte-array it gets translated, which is not correct as
> you already stated. Apparently, the compiler "sees" it's a normal field
> (and
> not a 3u0 field) and thus handles it as text.
>
>
> Charles,
> Ok, i didn't know that either, although, now you stated it, i knew or did
> know (forgotten/biased?) that the JVM was implemented below SLIC, not above
> which would be indeed very inefficient.
>
>
> Maybe i'm a bit too harsh on OS/400, it is indeed - these days - a very
> versatile platform.
> Anyway, although i'm quite critical, i AM a fan of OS/400, the platform.
> I'm just not a fan of RPG, and think it is the achillesheel of OS/400
> development.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Joe Pluta
> <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> > On 7/11/2011 8:14 AM, john e wrote:
> > > And... i know it will never, ever, be fixed, because nobody will
> > complain.
> > > Maybe you, me, a couple others on this thread, but the "audience"is
> just
> > > tooo very small for IBM.
> > > We just have to be thankful that there is something like RPG/Java
> > > integration.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 3:10 PM, john e<whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > I have one problem with RPG and Java integration however, a bit
> > off-topic,
> > > > but anyway. An alphanumeric field in RPG seems to be always translated
> > to a
> > > > byte-array, instead of a String. Then, RPG to Java support always
> > assumes
> > > > the field contains text, and thus always translates the contents to
> > UTF-16.
> > > > This is not correct. When just want to pass a field with bytes i can't
> > do
> > > > that, because it gets translated. The other way around would be
> better,
> > > > never translate it automatically, and when it contains text i can
> > (manually
> > > > by invoking a routine) translate ebcdic to utf-16 and pass that. This
> is
> > one
> > > > example of integration, which is ok, but still causing headaches
> because
> > of
> > > > the "different" (i.e. ecbdic etc) nature of it. This always
> translating
> > > > alpha fields to byte-arrays (not Strings but byte-arrays) is not
> > correct. It
> > > > seems like it wasn't well thought out.
> >
> > This simply isn't true.  If you want to pass untranslated data, pass it
> > as an array of 3u0.  I do it all the time and it works perfectly.  But
> > regardless, a character field is most definitely NOT a string!  It is an
> > array of character data.  You pass the data to Java, and then create a
> > string from those bytes, and that's Java's job.  You can also do it in
> > your RPG program by calling the appropriate String method.
> >
> > Personally, I think the integration of String and RPG CCSID is actually
> > very good.
> >
> >
> > > > Developing on the AS/400 and integrating with the rest of the world
> > always
> > > > seems problematic. With or without first-class support for JNI (which
> > RPG
> > > > has and is rather unique but.... doesn't work without hassles, again!)
> >
> > And from my standpoint, the IBM i is the most open platform available
> > and talks to just about everybody.  You can access it via web service or
> > ODBC or even direct calls to ILE through the Java toolbox.  Few
> > platforms provide anything like the connectivity of the i.
> >
> > Joe
> > --
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> list
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