RE: RPG - I'm not dead yet! -- RPG400-L

Re-edited in RTF....
Joe,You have it backwards.If the problem is too many side effects with OO you're doing it completely wrong. Now i don't say OO is end-all solution or anything like that. It's a concept, and an OO language incorporates those concepts in the language. It's a technique, nothing more, but an effective one used right, and in the right places.If you're developing software thats supposed to run on the AS/400 (sorry, IBM i), RPG implementing the business layer is and java for "the rest", is the best (most effective), as you often proclaim. But only because you already decided for the AS/400, for historical reasons. Java isn't well integrated (not at all actually). Running websphere (or simply the JVM for that matter) on OS/400 is like a "system-in-a-system" anti-pattern. But... RPG is not the most effective because it's such a fine language.RPG is there for historical reasons, just like COBOL and mainframe, and these days (i.e. since 2000 or so) you may even call RPG (RPGIV that is) a "real" programming language (thanks IBM), like C . RPGIII, or even RPGII... i wouldn't call these even languages. So RPGIV doesn't suck - sorry Joe about this word but don't know how to put it else because english is not my native language and i learn it from reading english blogs) as much anymore but thats about it. And besides, the language is only a small part of the equation.But OO still is - and nobody disputes this - a technique to PREVENT side effects.You don't need to know the insides of the method. It doesn't have any side effects. If it does, or you don't know exactly what it does, or you don't trust it, something else is wrong.
Hopefully this comes out better, else i have to switch hotmail (which would be a good idea anyway).
Hopefullt this comes

From: jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RPG - I'm not dead yet!
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:21:20 +0200

Joe,
You have it backwards.
If the problem is too many side effects with OO you're doing it completely wrong.
Now i don't say OO is end-all solution or anything like that.It's a concept, and an OO language incorporates those concepts in the language.It's a technique, nothing more, but an effective one used right, and in the right places.
If you're developing software thats supposed to run on the AS/400 (sorry, IBM i),RPG implementing the business layer is and java for "the rest", is the best (most effective), as you often proclaim.But only because you already decided for the AS/400, for historical reasons.Java isn't well integated (not at all actually).Running websphere (or simply the JVM for that matter) on OS/400 is like a"system-in-a-system", which is an anti-pattern.But... its not because RPG is such a fine language.RPG is there for historical reasons, and these days (i.e. since 2000 or so) youmay call RPG (RPGIV that is) a "real" programming language, like C.RPGIII or RPGII... i wouldn't call these languages even.So RPGIV doesn't suck - sorry Joe about this word but don't know how to put itbecause english is not my native language and i learn it from reading english blogs) as much anymore but thats about it.
And besides, the language is only a small part of the equation.
But OO still is - and nobody disputes this - a technique to PREVENT side effects.You don't need to know the insides of the method. It doesn't have any side effects.If it does, or you don't know exactly what it does, or you don't trust it, somethingelse is wrong.

Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 13:28:54 -0500
From: joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: RPG - I'm not dead yet!

On 7/8/2011 10:51 AM, john e wrote:

Right.Adding a method call or whatever in Java is also simple.

The problem with Java is that it becomes a side effect. You have to add
a method call to retrieve some information. You don't know what else
that method may do without some additional research. Also, everybody
who calls you now also calls that other method. This is one of the main
sources of code bloat in an OO environment.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen in RPG, but I am saying that
modifications to procedural code tend to have fewer side effects than
modifications to OO, at least when the OO code is taking full advantage
of data hiding and encapsulation. If your OO code is written like
procedural code, then there's not as much difference, but that just
reinforces my point.

Joe
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