RE: New RPG programmers -- RPG400-L

Wrong! Older people in the business like RPG in all of its forms because
they know that they can do just about anything that we need to do with it.
What we don't want is to have younger types telling us that we have to do
things a particular was because that is what IBM wants us to do. We know the
mechanics as well, if not better then they and we are not trying to justify
some of the new styles because they make things easier for the C types. Some
of us started in the computer business in the days when all we had was
assembly language so we learned some very good structures. No I don't want
to go back to those days but neither will I pass over good techniques just
to be able to say that I am doing it the "new way". Wake up and appreciate
the good elements of RPG.

Jack Derham  

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Duane Kehoe
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:13 PM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: New RPG programmers

I have watched this thread and now I want to put in my 2 bits.  I do not 
have, and for that matter will not have for quite some time, gray hairs 
- I am only 27.  I am mostly a self taught RPG programmer with 
experience in III and IV - ILE(free and fixed format) who is constantly 
pushing other developers in the shop to use the new syntax, BIFs, 
programming style, etc with little or no luck.  I unfortunately think 
most of the, pardon the saying, "oldtimers" will simply not change.  As 
an example we have a developer here who is great with RPG but does not 
see the advantages to the newer RPG, procedures, free format, or WDSCi 
and unless forced to(read threat of being fired or IBM's removal of 
green screen and RPG III compiler) will not use them.  We constantly get 
into discussions(O.K. disagreements ;-) ) regarding this topic and 
regardless what I say does not see the advantages.  So what have I done 
- I write all new code in the new methods and only degrade myself when 
maintaining existing code. 

I really think the core issue here is that of change coupled with a 
level of comfort.  I think as a person gets older they are less likely 
to embrace change as they have acquired a high level of comfort over 
many years of doing things how they have, whether or not a better way 
exists.  Further, most people who are in the later 1/3 to 1/4 of their 
career simply want to get through so to speak.  They have already fought 
their battles and waged their wars why should they risk it now?  Do a 
good job, stay under the radar, do not rock the boat, and retire.

Additionally, unless IBM makes serious efforts to entice 
universities/colleges/tech schools to offer RPG courses(as in give free 
training to profs, provide discounted, if not free, i5s, etc.) the only 
way RPG programming can stay alive is for companies to do the training.  
In my area there are no RPG training offering left unless you go through 
IBM, based on that how can we expect(or hope for that matter) to have 
young programmers come up with RPG skills?

Do I think RPG can/will die? Not anytime soon.  Can it be denigrated and 
relegated to menial tasks because of a lack of skilled pgmrs and 
mis-perceptions?  Yes.  Do I want to see this happen?  No, I believe 
there is a correct tool for every job and for almost everything iSeries 
related RPG is that tool.  Alright I am off my soap box now.

jstevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>Gray hair is just strting here, but I've programmed in RPG and it's 
>successors for 20 years. (S/36 to iSeries).  But I've got a BUNCH of gray 
>hairs around me, all digging in their heals about even learning ILE, let 
>alone any Java, VB, or (GASP!!) ILE Free form.
>
>I figure that if I keep up to date on my skills, in RPG/ILE and something 
>else (.NET, VB, 4GL, or JAVA) then I should be able to develop for quite a 
>few more years.
>
>At-lease I hope so - sure enjoy it.
>
>
>Jeff Stevens
>Mize, Houser & Co. P.A.
>913 451 1882
>JStevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>Mike Eovino <meovino@xxxxxxxxx> 
>Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces+jstevens=mizehouser.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>11/08/2004 02:05 PM
>Please respond to
>RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>To
>RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>cc
>
>Subject
>Re: New RPG programmers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>No gray hairs here either (33 years old).  I've been involved with RPG
>for about four years now, coming from a background in web development
>and Visual Basic.
>
>We grow our own programmers around here.  If someone shows an interest
>in learning RPG, we teach them ourselves.  Obviously, that's going to
>become an issue at some point (when we run out of people).
>
>And we face the same problem as other shops with some programmers not
>wanting to learn new techniques.  I hope it doesn't happen anytime
>soon, but if IBM kills off RPG, those of us who like to learn will
>move to whatever's left and others of us will be forced to retire.
> 
>Mike E.
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>  
>

-- 

/*Weyco** Group* -/

*/Florsheim, Brass Boot, Nunn Bush, Stacy Adams/*
Duane Kehoe
EC / Programmer / Analyst
        

Phone # 414.908.1814
Fax # 414.908.1610
Email: dkehoe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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