Re: New RPG programmers

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this:
<snip>
   Really I think the issue here is IBM's lack of involvement at the
   University level.  Sun and M$ have given millions in software and 
hardware
   to schools which has fostered a huge crop of programmers for their
   respective platforms while IBM has done almost the opposite(pulled back
   from schools) or nothing at all.  If IBM started to put resources into
   schools maybe they would begin teaching RPG again and we would see a
   resurgence of younger programmers in the arena.  Will they do this?  I 
do
   not know but I hope so.
<snip>

If you teach it in school, it becomes easier for you to understand, and 
you would have already known it coming out of school so there would be no 
transition period.  Let's face it, if they taught RPG at university, and 
the students graduated, how many would want to code in Java then?  They 
would sooner take what they know well and use it, thus an insurgence in 
RPG coders.  Simple as that.  Plus, then IBM would be considered "cutting 
edge" simply because it would be what the new crowd was learning.  But 
have them teach it in Free format (only because it gives the flavor of the 
languages currently viewed as cutting edge now) and we'd have a wild 
increase in RPG'ers.  I'm sure of it.  In fact, I'd hazard a guess to say 
that IBM is moving in the wrong direction when trying to sell their 
product to companies.  Fill the business world with coders who want the 
IBM equipment and the companies will fold and buy it (if the demand is 
strong enuff). 

Ron Power
Programmer
Information Services
City Of St. John's, NL
P.O. Box 908
St. John's, NL
A1C 5M2
Tel: 709-576-8132
Email: rpower@xxxxxxxxxx
Website: http://www.stjohns.ca/
___________________________________________________________________________
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. - 
Sir Winston Churchill




Duane Kehoe <dkehoe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
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09/11/2004 10:38 AM
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Re: New RPG programmers






   I never said all I said most, think about it this way - Are most RPG
   programmers on this list?  NO.  Do most even know it exists, or care? I
   bet NO.  Are they the ones I direct my comments at?  YES, not the 
members
   of this list who clearly are advancing their skills and learning new
   things.  I will give you the youngerster comment as I have seen the 
same
   thing(and that really bothers me as I too have learned many languages 
and
   always am looking to enhance my skills especially as I look to build my
   career). In my opinion those youngersters are tomorrow's older 
programmers
   that I am referring to, they are just getting an early start :-(

   Really I think the issue here is IBM's lack of involvement at the
   University level.  Sun and M$ have given millions in software and 
hardware
   to schools which has fostered a huge crop of programmers for their
   respective platforms while IBM has done almost the opposite(pulled back
   from schools) or nothing at all.  If IBM started to put resources into
   schools maybe they would begin teaching RPG again and we would see a
   resurgence of younger programmers in the arena.  Will they do this?  I 
do
   not know but I hope so.

   Anyway I did not want to make anyone think I was trying to be age-ist 
in
   my last post as I do learn something the members of this list almost
   weekly just by reading the posts and response.  Unfortunately I think 
the
   members of this list are not the rule in the RPG world but rather the
   exception.  Just my thoughts

   Joe Pluta wrote:

 Just wanted to take a swing at this common fallacy.

 This is a pretty age-ist statement.  While there are indeed older
 programmers who are relaxing in the twilight of their career, that
 description by no means fits all your elders.  It's really a matter of
 what kind of person you are.  For example, I've been programming almost
 as long as you've been alive, Duane, and I have no intention of slowing
 down.  On the other hand, I've met plenty of young folks who "stay under
 the radar", unwilling to say anything against the latest stupid trend
 (like EJB, or extreme programming) for fear of being lynched by zealous
 coworkers.  I've met PLENTY of youngsters who have a "comfort zone",
 usually with one of the newest technologies.  These are the ones that
 can't be bothered to learn RPG because it's not sexy enough.

 Me, I am always willing to learn a new language.  I've lost count of how
 many languages I've written, much less how many I've programmed in, and
 I'm still learning.  Right now my learning language is Python, although
 I have precious little free time.

 I'm not worried about it, though.  If the coming generations don't learn
 RPG, that doesn't mean RPG will go away.  Be serious.  There are
 BILLIONS of lines of RPG out there that aren't going to be rewritten or
 replaced any time soon.  So instead, it will mean that my RPG abilities
 (especially when coupled with my Java, HTML and JavaScript capabilities;
 not to mention the fact that I can design a database) will make me one
 valuable commodity.

 Anyway, not picking on you personally, Duane.  You're not the first
 person who has suggested that older programmers are "coasting".  Me, I
 think older programmers tend to have a wealth of common sense that is
 sorely lacking in some of the newer fads.  In fact, I prefer working
 with someone who as at least once in their lifetime actually written in
 assembly language and/or written software that worked at the chip level.


 Joe


 

 From: Duane Kehoe

 Further, most people who are in the later 1/3 to 1/4 of their
 career simply want to get through so to speak.  They have already
 

 fought
 

 their battles and waged their wars why should they risk it now?  Do a
 good job, stay under the radar, do not rock the boat, and retire.
 

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   Duane Kehoe                       Phone # 414.908.1814 
   EC / Programmer / Analyst           Fax # 414.908.1610 
                             Email: dkehoe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
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