RE: Service Programs VS normal Programs (Jon Paris)

Yes, you /are/ old and cranky and just like me.  

Nobody's fighting against new techniques; I happen to think that your first
program using new techniques shouldn't be a mission-critical program
(usually my later programs come out better the first time than my earlier
programs).  Anything that destabilizes the application is bad, regardless of
good intentions.

My point is that I see far too many systems with a single experimental
nothing-out-of-the-ordinary COBOL program sitting in the middle of an RPG
application; that's playing.  If you want to experiment, experiment away;
just make sure you evaluate your results and then move forward only if the
new technique benefits the application (here's the ROI).  The key in
applying new techniques is knowing when to apply them and then using
consistent application of those new techniques to improve overall quality,
efficiency, stability, and maintainability.  Programming is not the same as
coding!

Many of my customers are exposed to service programs, embedded SQL,
context-sensitive help, and activation groups for the first time when they
review my application.  They don't find just one example: refactoring
occupies a considerable amount of my time, and I do it because I've
evaluated new techniques and have seen their benefits on a system-wide
basis.  It's not rocket science; it's just a matter of keeping forward
momentum.

I've bayed in other forums about the merits of education (formal and
otherwise) and received little in return except rifle shots.

-rf


> -----Original Message-----
> From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wayne.James@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:23 AM
> To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
> Subject: RE: Service Programs VS normal Programs (Jon Paris)
> 
> <rant>
> You mean instead of writing "another" one-off, key, fragile,
> temperamental
> patch to the "ball-of-mud" production system you already have?  In the
> same RPG-II(I) style you've always used because "everyone knows how
> to
> read it"?
> 
> I'm sorry.  Jon's right.  When did it become the "right thing to do" to
> viciously fight against using "new techniques" that are now 5-10 years
> old?
> 
> Maybe I am also getting old and cranky, but maybe it is time for those of
> us who think that IBM worked hard to supply the new feature and maybe
> I
> should put in a little effort to see if they are beneficial to move to a
> new area.  Based on the track record of their customers and the
> sentiment
> expressed in this group, I would not blame IBM for moving all their
> development effort to other areas and never offering another
> "enhancement"
> to the language.  After all, "if it ain't broke..."
> 
> It's a sad old dog who can do nothing but bay the other hounds.
> <rant/>
> 
> L. Wayne James
> Senior Developer
> Agilysys, Inc.
> Hospitality Solutions Group
> 11545 Wills Road
> Alpharetta, GA 30004
> Phone:  770-962-6425 x1252
> Email:  Wayne.James@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> "Reeve" <news@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 08/30/2004 10:39 PM
> Please respond to
> RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> To
> "'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries'" <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
> 
> Subject
> RE: Service Programs VS normal Programs (Jon Paris)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The primary issue with "playing" is that the playthings often become
> one-off, key, fragile, temperamental components (not unlike an
> ill-mannered
> pet or relative) in a production system.
> 
> "Playing" is fine, as long as it's kept outside of the production sandbox.
> "Evaluating" has a professorial ring to it and conveys a good message to
> management; it also means.  Just because you can write a VARPG
> program
> doesn't mean you should stick it in the middle of your green-screen
> application.
> 
> Sometimes evaluations show a new technique isn't that good, and that's
> when
> the code should be trashed.
> 
> -rf
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jon Paris
> > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 9:03 PM
> > To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Service Programs VS normal Programs (Jon Paris)
> >
> >  >> the truth of the matter is that, if it works, it may well not need
> to
> > be
> > touched.  Ever.
> >
> > I _very_ clearly stated that I was in agreement with that position Joe.
> > If
> > _nothing_ ever changes then a rewrite is probably pointless.  But I
> > cannot
> > agree with James - I have met hundreds of programmers who used the
> > "it ain't
> > broke" argument as an excuse for not doing/learning anything new.  I
> > have
> > met very few who make changes just for the fun of it or to use the
> > latest
> > sexiest features.
> >
> > I do know that a very large percentage of 400 shops that I meet who
> > stick to
> > the "ain't broke" philosophy find themselves under constant threat from
> > Windows/Uni*x "solutions".  Very few of "explorers" seem to be in that
> > position.
> >
> > Personally I think that there is a lot of benefit to "playing" (and I
> know
> > you do this Joe).  As adults we seem to forget that all of the really
> > important things in our lives we learnt while playing as children.  We
> > learnt to walk by falling over - think about it - walking is just a
> series
> > of controlled falls!  Why does "play" become an evil because we are
> > adults?
> > If we use the latest and greatest - even if there is no immediate
> > quantifiable ROI - don't we get an ROI later when faced with new
> > programming
> > challenges?
> >
> > Jon Paris
> > Partner400
> > www.Partner400.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing
> > list
> > To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
> > or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.
> 
> --
> This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing
> list
> To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
> or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing
> list
> To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
> or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.