Re: IBM iseries comparison site??

I agree with your analysis, Andy.

We run a 720 in production, no test environment (sorry, library list munging
not a test environment). So, to get the system up to something recent, and
comply with audit findings (which we agree with), we got a quote for an 810,
LPAR, and enough disk/memory to run duplicate environments.

Our division HQ balked at the price, which includes CMS and 3rd party vendor
costs. Their question was, can we do a test-only request, or try LPAR with a
used box.

Hardware cost, though significant, is only 50-60% of the cost of the request.
Audit findings dictate we have an isolated test/development environment,
source management and control, and an area to perform DR testing. All of these
things help us comply with Sorbanes-Oxley rules (which our corporate HQ is
pressuring us to get in compliance). These things must be done regardless of
the hardware path we choose.

The test-only request isn't a bad idea, except that we still need CMS, and our
720 is running V4R5. Given that we want the production environment to as
closely follow test as possible, it's only feasible we upgrade the production
box to V5R2. So, with a new 800, CMS, and hardware to bring our 720 system
into V5R2 compliance, we're at 75% of the original (810 LPAR) quote.

However, I still have the 720 that's fully depreciated, and slow (compared to
test). And I have two separate hardware and software maintenance agreements to
look after, multiple boxes, additional floor space, etc. The system is near
the end of its life, and IBM could withdraw OS support it if we keep it for
three more years.

Buying a used machine to LPAR is interesting, but to get any kind of justice
from it, I want a machine capable of running 2 equivalent 720s
(CPW/disk/memory-wise). I actually want it faster, because why buy a box to
LPAR if you don't get a performance improvement from it? I suspect the 820
capable of replacing 2 independent 720 systems will push me into the P30
group. Aside from the aggrivation of getting a used box on IBM support and
ensuring the OS is legal, etc., the software costs look like they double from
P20 to P30, per annum. 

And as always, it isn't the base box that's expensive, it's all the features
needed to make it run correctly in our environment.

I'm not seriously looking at LPARing an 820, I just wanted to get an idea of
how much 820 we would need to have the equivalent of 2 720 systems (plus
interactive, memory, disk for each). It sounds like the processor-per-LPAR is
the way to go, and I notice that additional processors and interactive
features get expensive quickly.

We missed the IBM cutoff for migrating our 720 into a 810; our only option
here is a new purchase without trade-in.

All these arguments we're persuing to back the claim that an LPAR'd 810 is the
best decision. We picked the smallest 810, which is I think about 3x faster
than our current 720, because of its 1050 (?) interactive CPWs in the
Enterprise edition, LPARing capability, and Linux-hosted capability.

Division is asking the questions, and I have to make due dilligence that
though the questions look promising on their face, additional requirements
don't make them as attractive as they first appear.

Thanks,
Loyd

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:33:21 -0500, "Andy Nolen-Parkhouse"
<aparkhouse@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Loyd,
>
>The 720 will support LPAR, but not on a partial-processor basis.  The newer
>machines will allow you to allocate fractions of processors to a partition.
>So a 720 uni-processor machine like the #2061, by definition, cannot support
>partitioning.
>
>I don't think that you'll find a direct comparison web site that gives you
>what you want.  You need to pay attention to software tier levels,
>maintenance expense, and software subscription costs.  Once you factor in
>some of the non-hardware stuff, you may find that an 810 is less expensive
>than a used 820.
>
>If you are considering LPAR, your best bet is to get some knowledgeable
>advice from an experience business partner.  Configuring the hardware for an
>LPAR machine requires some specific knowledge and experience.  A business
>partner should be able to (and motivated to) help you with your cost
>justification if they think that it will result in a sale.
>
>To answer one of your other questions, the smallest 820 and the smallest
>810, both have processing power (measured in CPW) that is more than twice
>the power of a 720 #2061.  You would need to figure your interactive
>capacity also.
>
>Would this be an upgrade or a new purchase?
>
>Regards,
>Andy Nolen-Parkhouse
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Goodbar, Loyd (ETS - Water Valley)
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:56 PM
>> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
>> Subject: IBM iseries comparison site??
>> 
>> Is there an IBM site that could show me an 820 machine, LPARed, would be
>> equivalent to two 720 2061 with a 1501 interactive feature, 1GB memory?
>> 
>> We are trying to justify an upgrade from our 720 to an 810, and we were
>> posed the question, "can we get a used machine to do the LPAR?" We want
>> the
>> 810 to LPAR into development and test, in one machine to reduce footprint
>> size and number of boxes. My understanding is the 820 is the best match
>> equivalent for LPARing a 720.
>> 
>> Or... can I LPAR a 720?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Loyd
>> 
>> --
>> Loyd Goodbar
>
>
>
>
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Mediocrity: It takes a lot less time and most people won't notice
the difference until it's too late. <http://www.despair.com/>
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