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PTFs have been like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded revolver over the last year or so. We have been burned many, many times. Anything Domino related we install TEMP, and I usually test the backout if it is significant enough. The usual OS/400, Java, Brms etc are applied on a 4 week rotation on our systems are applied as PERM. We are usually a month behind the bleeding edge in PTFs. You want to lose sleep at night? Read up on defective PTFs................ It amazes me that DB2 on iSeries even works. http://www-912.ibm.com/s_dir/sline003.NSF/3a8f58452f9800bc862562900059e09e/c6ab0c609a1d2f3e86256c0f00586539?OpenDocument Sean http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Sent by: domino400-bounces+seanmurphy=bedbath.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 05:56 PM Please respond to domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject Domino400 Digest, Vol 3, Issue 81 Send Domino400 mailing list submissions to domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at domino400-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Domino400 digest..." Today's Topics: 1. perm apply ptf's (rob@xxxxxxxxx) 2. Re: perm apply ptf's (MWalter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) 3. Re: perm apply ptf's (Chris Whisonant) 4. Re: perm apply ptf's (rob@xxxxxxxxx) 5. Re: perm apply ptf's (rob@xxxxxxxxx) 6. Re: perm apply ptf's (Robert Laing) 7. Re: perm apply ptf's (rob@xxxxxxxxx) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- message: 1 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:53:58 -0500 from: rob@xxxxxxxxx subject: perm apply ptf's Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then load and apply the updated ptf. As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com ------------------------------ message: 2 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:56:20 -0400 from: MWalter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx subject: Re: perm apply ptf's Nor do I. If disk space is that low, you have more problems than just applying ptfs. Thanks, Mark Mark D. Walter Senior Programmer/Analyst CCX, Inc. mwalter@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.ccxinc.com rob@xxxxxxxxx Sent by: domino400-bounces To +mwalter=hanoverw midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx ire.com@midrange. cc com domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx Subject perm apply ptf's 04/20/2005 02:53 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@midran ge.com> Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then load and apply the updated ptf. As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. ------------------------------ message: 3 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:57:25 -0400 from: Chris Whisonant <Chris.Whisonant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> subject: Re: perm apply ptf's We never apply permanently either unless we are upgrading OS releases. What is up with updating the PTF?!? That's the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. I wonder how many other times this has happened? Chris Whisonant Comporium Senior Mid-Range Systems Administrator IBM eServer Certified Systems Expert - iSeries Technical Solutions V5R2 IBM Certified System Administrator - Lotus Notes and Domino 6/6.5 803.326.7270 | 803.326.6142 fax http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com/ domino400-bounces+chris.whisonant=comporium.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/20/2005 02:53:58 PM: > Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as > a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today > I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to > redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 > I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to > update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) > So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied > this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then > load and apply the updated ptf. > > As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). > > Rob Berendt > -- > Group Dekko Services, LLC > Dept 01.073 > PO Box 2000 > Dock 108 > 6928N 400E > Kendallville, IN 46755 > http://www.dekko.com > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list > To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 > or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. > ------------------------------ message: 4 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:33:30 -0500 from: rob@xxxxxxxxx subject: Re: perm apply ptf's My comment to the IBMer: Frankly I am quite appalled that they didn't come out with a new ptf level, for example, SA96422 versus an updated SA96421. His response: Good point. I sent your suggestion to the support level above me for consideration and review. Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com Chris Whisonant <Chris.Whisonant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: domino400-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 01:57 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject Re: perm apply ptf's We never apply permanently either unless we are upgrading OS releases. What is up with updating the PTF?!? That's the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. I wonder how many other times this has happened? Chris Whisonant Comporium Senior Mid-Range Systems Administrator IBM eServer Certified Systems Expert - iSeries Technical Solutions V5R2 IBM Certified System Administrator - Lotus Notes and Domino 6/6.5 803.326.7270 | 803.326.6142 fax http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com/ domino400-bounces+chris.whisonant=comporium.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/20/2005 02:53:58 PM: > Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as > a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today > I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to > redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 > I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to > update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) > So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied > this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then > load and apply the updated ptf. > > As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). > > Rob Berendt > -- > Group Dekko Services, LLC > Dept 01.073 > PO Box 2000 > Dock 108 > 6928N 400E > Kendallville, IN 46755 > http://www.dekko.com > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list > To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 > or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. > _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. ------------------------------ message: 5 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:41:46 -0500 from: rob@xxxxxxxxx subject: Re: perm apply ptf's And, Domino has done strange things in the past, like having you reload one extended product after having upgraded your version of Domino. I suspect they do something like having a different version of some program or service program out there based on whether or not you have that extended product. For example, let's say that QINNINSTS was a program. Then if you had a certain extended product (Sametime, Quickplace, LEI, Domino Fax for iSeries, etc) they might replace that program with a modified version of their own. The only time 'traditional' os/400 programs have ever replaced a ptf was when a test version of that ptf was released to a few restricted customers for testing. Then a bug was reported and they modified it, did their internal regression testing, and then released it again to the test crowd. But this test crowd is aware that it is a test ptf and they should not permanently apply it. (And it really vexes IBM when you do. Trust me, they don't like regening a ptf as a new number just because you oopsed. They'll do it, because you are the customer and deserve their service, but you do have to let them vent as your part of the partnership.) Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com Chris Whisonant <Chris.Whisonant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: domino400-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 01:57 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject Re: perm apply ptf's We never apply permanently either unless we are upgrading OS releases. What is up with updating the PTF?!? That's the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. I wonder how many other times this has happened? Chris Whisonant Comporium Senior Mid-Range Systems Administrator IBM eServer Certified Systems Expert - iSeries Technical Solutions V5R2 IBM Certified System Administrator - Lotus Notes and Domino 6/6.5 803.326.7270 | 803.326.6142 fax http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com/ domino400-bounces+chris.whisonant=comporium.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/20/2005 02:53:58 PM: > Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as > a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today > I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to > redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 > I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to > update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) > So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied > this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then > load and apply the updated ptf. > > As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). > > Rob Berendt > -- > Group Dekko Services, LLC > Dept 01.073 > PO Box 2000 > Dock 108 > 6928N 400E > Kendallville, IN 46755 > http://www.dekko.com > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list > To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 > or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. > _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. ------------------------------ message: 6 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:49:38 -0400 from: Robert Laing <rlaing@xxxxxxxxx> subject: Re: perm apply ptf's It's a good rule of thumb to permanently apply ptf's before upgrading to a new release or loading a new cum/group package. Other than that, freeing DASD would be the only other reason I would see to permanently apply ptf's. Bob rob@xxxxxxxxx Sent by: domino400-bounces To +rlaing=gemko.com Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 @midrange.com <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc 04/20/2005 03:41 Subject PM Re: perm apply ptf's Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@midran ge.com> And, Domino has done strange things in the past, like having you reload one extended product after having upgraded your version of Domino. I suspect they do something like having a different version of some program or service program out there based on whether or not you have that extended product. For example, let's say that QINNINSTS was a program. Then if you had a certain extended product (Sametime, Quickplace, LEI, Domino Fax for iSeries, etc) they might replace that program with a modified version of their own. The only time 'traditional' os/400 programs have ever replaced a ptf was when a test version of that ptf was released to a few restricted customers for testing. Then a bug was reported and they modified it, did their internal regression testing, and then released it again to the test crowd. But this test crowd is aware that it is a test ptf and they should not permanently apply it. (And it really vexes IBM when you do. Trust me, they don't like regening a ptf as a new number just because you oopsed. They'll do it, because you are the customer and deserve their service, but you do have to let them vent as your part of the partnership.) Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com Chris Whisonant <Chris.Whisonant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: domino400-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 01:57 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject Re: perm apply ptf's We never apply permanently either unless we are upgrading OS releases. What is up with updating the PTF?!? That's the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. I wonder how many other times this has happened? Chris Whisonant Comporium Senior Mid-Range Systems Administrator IBM eServer Certified Systems Expert - iSeries Technical Solutions V5R2 IBM Certified System Administrator - Lotus Notes and Domino 6/6.5 803.326.7270 | 803.326.6142 fax http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com/ domino400-bounces+chris.whisonant=comporium.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/20/2005 02:53:58 PM: > Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as > a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today > I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to > redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 > I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to > update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) > So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied > this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then > load and apply the updated ptf. > > As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). > > Rob Berendt > -- > Group Dekko Services, LLC > Dept 01.073 > PO Box 2000 > Dock 108 > 6928N 400E > Kendallville, IN 46755 > http://www.dekko.com > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list > To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 > or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. > _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. ------------------------------ message: 7 date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:55:42 -0500 from: rob@xxxxxxxxx subject: Re: perm apply ptf's Why? Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com Robert Laing <rlaing@xxxxxxxxx> Sent by: domino400-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 04:49 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject Re: perm apply ptf's It's a good rule of thumb to permanently apply ptf's before upgrading to a new release or loading a new cum/group package. Other than that, freeing DASD would be the only other reason I would see to permanently apply ptf's. Bob rob@xxxxxxxxx Sent by: domino400-bounces To +rlaing=gemko.com Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 @midrange.com <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc 04/20/2005 03:41 Subject PM Re: perm apply ptf's Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@midran ge.com> And, Domino has done strange things in the past, like having you reload one extended product after having upgraded your version of Domino. I suspect they do something like having a different version of some program or service program out there based on whether or not you have that extended product. For example, let's say that QINNINSTS was a program. Then if you had a certain extended product (Sametime, Quickplace, LEI, Domino Fax for iSeries, etc) they might replace that program with a modified version of their own. The only time 'traditional' os/400 programs have ever replaced a ptf was when a test version of that ptf was released to a few restricted customers for testing. Then a bug was reported and they modified it, did their internal regression testing, and then released it again to the test crowd. But this test crowd is aware that it is a test ptf and they should not permanently apply it. (And it really vexes IBM when you do. Trust me, they don't like regening a ptf as a new number just because you oopsed. They'll do it, because you are the customer and deserve their service, but you do have to let them vent as your part of the partnership.) Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com Chris Whisonant <Chris.Whisonant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: domino400-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/20/2005 01:57 PM Please respond to Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 <domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject Re: perm apply ptf's We never apply permanently either unless we are upgrading OS releases. What is up with updating the PTF?!? That's the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. I wonder how many other times this has happened? Chris Whisonant Comporium Senior Mid-Range Systems Administrator IBM eServer Certified Systems Expert - iSeries Technical Solutions V5R2 IBM Certified System Administrator - Lotus Notes and Domino 6/6.5 803.326.7270 | 803.326.6142 fax http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com/ domino400-bounces+chris.whisonant=comporium.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/20/2005 02:53:58 PM: > Someone recently asked a question regarding permanently applying ptf's as > a general rule. I'd like to give another example of why not. Just today > I got an email from an IBMer supporting Notes. They wanted me to > redownload the ptf for Team Workplace (Quickplace) as instructed by: > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&uid=swg24009143 > I already had this ptf loaded and applied. However, someone decided to > update the ptf versus coming out with a new ptf number. (Crack addict?) > So I had to RMVPTF, reload it, and apply the new reload. If I had applied > this permanently I would have had to DLTLICPGM 5733LQP, reinstall it, then > load and apply the updated ptf. > > As a general rule I never do a APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) APY(*PERM). > > Rob Berendt > -- > Group Dekko Services, LLC > Dept 01.073 > PO Box 2000 > Dock 108 > 6928N 400E > Kendallville, IN 46755 > http://www.dekko.com > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list > To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 > or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. > _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) mailing list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ This is the Lotus Domino on the iSeries / AS400 (Domino400) digest list To post a message email: Domino400@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/domino400 or email: Domino400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/domino400. End of Domino400 Digest, Vol 3, Issue 81 ****************************************
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