Re: SSA Licensing Fees and OGS -- BPCS-L

Personally, there shouldn't be dozens of  ways to write a contract for
software.  There should be a standard in place factoring in the Number of
Users, Modules being used, and the size of the machine.  Other than that,
why create all the mess of having all the unique issues.   I realize this
would be impossible to control, but it would be nice if this user list was
for users only and not monitored by SSA  so we can discuss these non
standard legal matters.  As far as contacting someone at SSA about issues,
it's very difficult to get two people at SSA to agree on anything if it
relates to contracts, relicensing, purchasing new hardware keys,
etc........   No more from me on this.........



                    "Genyphyr
                    Novak"                To:     <bpcs-l@midrange.com>
                    <novakg@ssax.co       cc:
                    m>                    Subject:     Re: SSA Licensing Fees 
and OGS
                    Sent by:
                    bpcs-l-admin@mi
                    drange.com


                    12/28/01 09:49
                    AM
                    Please respond
                    to bpcs-l






Hello,

One thing that OGS gives you is the right to move to new releases (ie, V8),
so this is one of the benefits that you are paying for.....and it gives you
the right to receive fixes (ie BMRs) on any bugs in the programs. If you
don't have this, you have to pay someone else to fix it, and then you have
a
modified version of that program to maintain going forwards, which will
also
make future upgrades more difficult.

If you plan to never upgrade any of your software or hardware and assume
that the software delivered will have no bugs in it, and never have
questions that you want to ask the SSA GT Support Center about the
software,
then yes, OGS wouldn't have much use.

Also, as an FYI - OGS stands for OnGoing Support and describes the entire
'software support' contract and support package. A contract for OGS is the
support contract for the software you purchase, and right to upgrade to
future versions and receive fixes, access the OGS website, etc..

The software license is a license to use the SSA GT software as defined by
the license contract (by number of concurrent users, named users or machine
size or what ever else your contract may state).

As regards OGS support of modifications, the support side handling of
modified BPCS programs is explained in the IBM Redbook on eBPCS in the
support chapters, which also explain how to load and maintain BMRs in your
environment. This Redbook is free on the IBM redbooks site and does have an
overview of the SSA (old) Support structure, most of which has remained in
the new SSA GT structure. It does not show a lot of what is new and
improved
on OGS Online or anything that has happened since the publication of the
Redbook.

SSA GT Support Center and R&D will work on your software issue, even if it
is with a program that you have modified, as long as we can identify that
same issue in our CURRENT version of the program.We will repair our current
version of the program in a BMR, if we can reproduce in our version of the
software, the same problem that you experience in your modified version of
the software. You need to be prepared to tell us the factors that will help
us to reproduce/identify the problem, so that we know what to fix. Thus, it
is always a good idea to keep an unmodified version of BPCS software in an
environment at your site, so that you can also do the same software
comparison that the Support Center will do. If you can reproduce it in the
unmodified environment at your site, then obviously this will speed the
process of resolving the issue as you will be able to relate the exact
unmodified set-up required to reproduce the problem.

If we can not reproduce it or otherwise identify the root cause, we'll ask
you to retro-fit our current BMRs into your modified code to see if that
resolves the issue. Unless we can reproduce/identify the problem in our
current version of the same software, then it is pretty hard to fix it.

If your modifications were done by our SSA GT GDC custom programmers, and
you have a maintenance contract with that group, they can fix the issue if
the problem lies in the modified section of the code. Even if you did not
have the modifications done by the GDC, or if you did not purchase support
for the modifications they can still be hired to fix the software problem
you are experiencing (if the SSA GT Support Center shows that the problem
is
not with the base product).

As to whether or not you need to pay more for a new license key when
changing your hardware, it is entirely dependent upon your software license
contract. What is true for one company may not apply at all to another one.
This is especially true if your contract was written pre-SSA GT, when it is
true that contracts were not standardized.

Personally, I think this is the wrong place for people to be discussing
legal matters about contracts, since contracts are written differently for
companies depending on dozens of factors. You should really direct these
questions to your SSA Sales representative and go up the management chain
in
that department if you still require further clarification. This is the
only
way to get an authoritative answer. A lot of what has been said back and
forth in this discussion chain is true only for a small amount of
companies,
or maybe just their own company, and some statements made are not true at
all anymore - I will not be going through each posting on this topic to
verify whether or not each and every thing said was or was not something
that is still true today -  I am not part of the SSA contracts/sales group,
and also Al's postings are very long! ;-)

Thanks,

Genyphyr Novak
SSA GT
R&D

----- Original Message -----
From: <RickCarter@holley.com>
To: <bpcs-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: SSA Licensing Fees and OGS


>
> We have always renewed the OGS but only use the service a handful of
times
> per year.  We rarely call the Help Desk and version 6.1.01 is stable
> enough, that we have only downloaded a few BMR's this past year.   It's a
> struggle to keep paying for the service when we're not using much of it.
I
> renewed it the last year mainly for the issues with the license key with
> new hardware.  We also like to stay current and would plan on going to V8
> within the next 12 months but the ever rising cost of OGS makes this a
very
> difficult decision.
>
>
>
>                     "Chick Doe"
>                     <Cdoe@barton-instru       To:
<bpcs-l@midrange.com>
>                     ments.com>                cc:
>                     Sent by:                  Subject:     Re: SSA
Licensing Fees and OGS
>                     bpcs-l-admin@midran
>                     ge.com
>
>
>                     12/27/01 09:59 AM
>                     Please respond to
>                     bpcs-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> we're asking the same questions. here's what i think we're hearing from
> ssa.
>
> 1.  check your contract for your user licenses. i believe that ssa sold
> them a couple of different ways. they either sold them by the module or
> they sold 'named user' licenses. my understanding is that you bought the
> licenses and they are yours to use. ssa should not charge you anything
more
> to continue to use your exisitng licenses on the version of bpcs that you
> are currently using. i believe that the licesnes are perpetual licenses
and
> do noty need to be renewed.
>
> 2. i'm not totally sure about getting a new key when you upgrade your
> computer. if you are on OGS this is a now charge item. (we just did it).
> but we were told that if we were not on OGS SSA would charge $10K to
> provide a new key. i don';t know if the $10K is a standard charge for all
> uses or whether it variies based upon number of users, size of machine,
> version, or any other variable.
>
> to all:
> here's a question that we are struggling with. what value do you place on
> OGS? especially if you are happy with the version of BPCS that you are
> using?   how do you justify the expense of OGS versus the benefits taht
you
> receive from it?
>
> i'd appreciate any feedback that you have regarding how your compoany
views
> OGS, the cost of it, and the benefits of it.
>
> chick doe
> barton instrument systems


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