Re: Modernization? -- WEB400

Yes, I understand that.

But when the salesman comes knocking trying to sell a "modern" solution, it
is very unlikely to be based on the system i -- even IBM promote their own
X-Series. And - remember - WebSphere and Apache run on Intel. Three tier
browser based applications run on Intel.

Yes - we can "modernize" on system i -- but what sets it apart from Intel?
What makes the i sufficiently different?
Most companies have both platforms, and it very easy to see how a finance
director can save money (short term) by adding another Intel box at little
additional cost, whilst simultaneously getting rid of the iSeries and all
the iSeries staff. It also frees up office space for other purposes.

I have lost many customers because Intel was the more attractive option. It
is a trend I would like to see reversed.

I don't see how creating applications that can also run on Intel (MySQL,
Zend, Pearl, WebSphere, Java, etc. etc.) can ultimately justify keeping a
system i. I currently have two clients I am doing my best to persuade not to
go down the "modern" Microsoft route - I think I am fighting a loosing
battle. Both of them are likely to get rid of the i, and the corresponding
staff.

Syd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Kelly Cookson
Sent: 16 November 2009 15:48
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

I think application modernization on the IBM i means acquiring the
ability to develop three-tier browser based applications in addition to
traditional two-tier green screen applications. There are definite
benefits that come with being able to do both.

Plus, that's pretty much the way IBM looks at it as well. Check out
modernization in their Redbooks...for example:
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246671.html

Kelly

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dr. Syd Nicholson
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:38 AM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

Application "modernization"???? or Hype.

A euphemism for "Run everything on Intel, almost certainly using a
Microsoft
operating system".

I always thought us iSeries users were using one of the most modern
computer
designs available.

Syd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Nathan Andelin
Sent: 16 November 2009 15:14
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

Regarding better performance, the article indicated that database
objects
were reference by "pointers" which appears to be another way of saying
"record level access", which is used by RPG programmers every day.
Evidently, we have a futuristic DBMS.

In his original post, Roger Harman referenced a message from a migration
vendor which implied that modernization meant a change in:

1. Hardware platform
2. Operating system
3. Database management system
4. Programming languages
5. Integrated development environment & related tools
6. 2-tier architecture to multi-tier.

But they promised a streamlined migration. Is anyone buying that?

-Nathan.

----- Original Message ----
From: Vern Hamberg <vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 11:39:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

It was interesting to me that OODBMS was an idea that was first
mentioned at least as early as 1980 (or somewhere back there) -
according to the wiki article that Maurice cited. The same article
claims better performance for certain kinds of queries with OODBMS,
although it is maybe not so good for ad hoc stuff - best if you ask it
for information as it is stored.

Vern

Kelly Cookson wrote:

The American Heritage Dictionary defines the word futuristic as:
"Characterized by, or expressing a vision of, the future. Being ahead

the times. Innovative or revolutionary."

The same dictionary defines the word modern as: "Characteristic or
expressive of recent times or the present; contemporary or

up-to-date."

It seems to me that OODMBS and the NoSQL movement are more futuristic
than modern. And it seems to me that RDBMS are still modern.

A system does not have to be futuristic to be modern.

My 2 cents...
Kelly

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dean, Robert
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:14 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

I don't think OODBMS is the next big revolution. With the rise of
virtualization and clustering has come a set of database technologies
that fall under an umbrella called "NoSQL":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nosql

Many of these are derived from concepts originating in Google's work
with BigTable, although there are some much older technologies (IMS)
included. It just goes to show the cyclical nature of technology.

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Maurice O'Prey
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:08 AM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

Vern Wrote

Sounds like you have a product - if so, please say so. Your comments
come across very skewed.

No product, I just have a very basic Prototype OODBMS put together

some

years ago. I have no criticism of the databases mentioned, all I would
say
is that RDBMS has been around for quite a considerable time and with

the

expansion of OO programming languages then it would appear natural

that

an
OODBMS would come along next (maybe we are ready for it now?).

Possibly

this
then could be referred to as a "Modern" approach to the database and

one

that works more akin to the human brain (I don't think mine stores
tables..., but who knows ;-)

Certainly there is room for both RDMS and OODBMS and its not one

versus

the
other. It is a topic that I am very interested in, more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_database#

Hope this clarifies my comment a little bit and I do apologise if it

was

skewed.

Maurice

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Vern Hamberg
Sent: 15 November 2009 02:16
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

Sounds like you have a product - if so, please say so. Your comments
come across very skewed.

Hope that is not true!!
Vern

Maurice O'Prey wrote:

Mike

It would take some discussion for me to put forward my ill founded

thoughts

on what a modern database should be. But if someone tells me that a

20th

century database (based on the thoughts of Dr. Edgar Frank Codd

"Ted")

is

modern then I have to question it? It was a good idea in the day and

now
our

systems are built over it (not just DB2 but also SQL Server, MySQL,

Oracle

etc). It is far too large a subject to discuss on this list (and I'm

likely

to be burned at the stake....) but personally I believe the next big
revolution will involve the database (we've had improvements

everywhere

else).

Cellular and fast, I have a prototype ;-)

Regards

Maurice

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

[mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

On

Behalf Of Mike Pavlak
Sent: 13 November 2009 16:17
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

Maurice and all,

One would infer from your message that you have some concerns about

DB2i

or IBM i being "Modern". Can you share what you believe might be
lacking in these regarding what may be considered modern? I am
currently sitting in CAAC Requirement meetings in Rochester and would

be

happy to include requirements by you and the community at large for

IBM

to consider.

Please lay off the marketing shtick, I ain't beating that horse in

this

venue. See iManifest for more details on that.

Regards,

Mike

mike.p@xxxxxxxx Cell: (408)679-1011 Office: (815)722-3454

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

[mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

On Behalf Of Maurice O'Prey
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:43 PM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Modernization?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of modern is.

It's good yes, but modern??

Thought I'd share an email I received and my response......

========================================================================

==

Thanks for the offer. However, we already have a "modern
industry-standard platform" . IBM i on Power - which includes a

modern

relational database.

From: /redacted/ <<<

Dear Roger,

I have logged a few calls to your desk and wondered if we could set

a

time to speak. Do you have some time available this month?

I wanted to reach out to you and your team and see if the timing is
right to discuss with our Application Modernisation team about
"Modernizing your aging applications", the week beginning November
16th 2009.

<redacted> is specialized in migrating legacy applications and
databases to modern industry-standard platforms and systems in an
automated fashion. Over the last 12 years <redacted> has successfully
combined a market leading suite of automated migration tools, proven
methodology, and expertise to help organizations maximize the value

their legacy systems while minimizing risk and cost. <redacted> has
several successful modernization projects of small, midsize, and
large-scale applications in AS/400 and client/server environments.

Services Provided by <redacted> in Enterprise Technology

Modernization.

A) Application Inventory and Global Assessment - Providing a
complete inventory of a company's legacy assets across all desired
legacy platforms.
B) Modernization Roadmap - We work with clients to develop a
detailed, technical, comprehensive roadmap to safely modernize

desired

legacy systems over time.
C) Database Migration - Migrate from pre-relational databases to
modern relational databases.
D) Application Migration - Migrate from legacy application

languages

to modern platforms such as Microsoft.NET and J2EE without any
reinvestments and re-write of the application.
E) Architecture Migration - Web Enablement, Client server to
Multi-Tier, Client server to SOA. Reap the benefits of three-tier
architecture for enterprise-class Quality of Service.
F) Application development and maintenance - We have all

technical

capabilities to offer support services ranging from version. 4.0 to

the

latest versions. Minimize IT maintenance and support costs through

Web

deployment.