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I tell my students that the #1 way to get fired in IT is to lose data due to no backups (seen it happen over a dozen times). You can lose data from many more sources than a disk crash ... Even for http://.www.ScoreBook.com , which is a high-volume 24x7 web site that we host on a Raid-5 equipped system, we do nightly application data backups (with the site still up) and weekly (3:00am Sunday) complete (save option 21) system backups (with the site down). A lot of sites that say that they are 24X7 really aren't ... look at your server logs ... are you really 24X7? How many visitors (not search engines) arrive at 2 - 4am ? Do these people have big mortgages, small children, & NO INSURANCE? I doubt it!!! John Myers IBM Certified Specialist - AS/400 Technical Solutions IBM Certified Specialist - Advisor for e-Business Strategic Business Systems, Inc. 17 S. Franklin Turnpike, Ramsey, NJ 07446 USA E-mail: mailto:jmyers@sbsusa.com Phone: +1 (201) EASY 400 x131 Web: http://www.sbsusa.com Fax: +1 (201) 327-6984 Free Sports League Management - Powered by AS/400 http://www.ScoreBook.com Get and route intelligence from your IBM AS/400 web site - WebSurvey/400 http://www.WebSurvey400.com At 04:32 PM 5/4/01, Stone, Brad V (TC) wrote: >My system is hardly static. then again, your definition of static and mine >may be different, and we are probably on different pages anyway. > >Also, if you tell someone... > >"If we do not take the machine down for 1 hour a month to do backups, there >could be BIG problems. If the system goes down and you don't allow for >these backups, you'll be down for good." > >And they say > >"I don't care. No backups!!" > >You have 2 choices. > >1. Don't do them, and at the first sign of fire, run. >2. Do the backups anyways, and see if they notice. Then when a crash >happens tell them "I told you so", but don't tell them you did backups. >Then say "I can get your system back up in 1 hour for 500k or in 3 weeks for >100k" and see which option they take. They take option 1, you retire and >look like a hero. Because, those backups never existed. > >If you simply give up after hearing project requirement of "24/7" and don't >discuss the pros and cons of doing backups, then you as a project >manager/solution provider have failed. I don't see what is so hard about >understanding that. > >When someone asks me to jump, I don't so "how high". I say "what is the >benefit of jumping?" and I get more respect (and self-respect) in the >longrun for that than licking boots. > >Brad > >Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Evan Harris [mailto:spanner@ihug.co.nz] > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:42 PM > > To: WEB400@midrange.com > > Subject: RE: Hey Guys - people actually think that I know what I'm > > talking about... > > > > > > Brad > > > > Yes I was talking about more than just the data. User profiles, Hosts > > tables, the whole shebang. > > > > Agreed you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils - > > but sometimes > > it is not your decision. It seems you are in the fortunate > > position of > > deciding at the moment > > > > It sound like the system is fairly static and not a lot > > happens on it, > > otherwise your approach would be somewhat more problematic. > > > > Regards > > Evan Harris > > > > >Evan, > > > > > >You'll have to explain more what you are talking about. I'm > > talking data, > > >it sounds like you're talking system settings, etc. > > > > > >Again, you need to decide which is the lesser of two evils. > > Being down for > > >an hour to do a system save once a month, or not being able > > to restore if > > >your machine crashes. I choose the first. No amount of > > reasoning will be > > >able to convince me that doing that one hour a month to do > > backups is more > > >important than the customer wanting 24/7 no matter what, > > even if it means > > >total disaster and the inability to get anything back. > > > > > >Of course, if the customer was so blind that they didn't > > think of that, I > > >would specifically put in my contract that they declined the > > backup option > > >and that any rebuilding of the system as a result of a crash would be > > >charged triple time rates. > > > > > >Brad > > > > > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > To be honest I meant a system rebuild :) If anyone still does > > > > these these > > > > days. I take it from your comments that the webserver is > > > > easily rebuilt > > > > somehow, and from that point of view, a recovery could be > > > > accomplished > > > > using scripts that rebuild things rather than restoring. > > Recovery and > > > > restore are not necessarily the same thing even though the > > > > point is often > > > > missed > > >+--- +--- | This is the WEB400 Mailing List! | To submit a new message, send your mail to WEB400@midrange.com. | To subscribe to this list send email to WEB400-SUB@midrange.com. | To unsubscribe from this list send email to WEB400-UNSUB@midrange.com. | Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com +---
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