I must have missed the original post by Tim... the second paragraph is hilarious. I have often thought the same thing.


-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brian Parkins
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 5:09 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Clientfor System i & iSeries <wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] RDi way ahead

Good points well made, Tim.

Brian.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Fathers
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:35 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client forSystem i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] RDi way ahead

It wasn't my intention to start an editor war, it was just a throw away comment based on the aggravation levels I experience using the various tools I do. Much as I like RDi compared to SEU, it's more brittle than the other IDEs I use and creates more friction, that's my experience at least.


I'm sure the RDi team does a good job and I don't suppose any of the developers went to their boss one day and said "You know how much we hate our users right? Well, instead of just having our software install like any other piece of PC software, why not create our own 'installation manager'
which we can use to make installation, updating and licencing really painful, that will really antagonise them!" Or "Boss, you know how the IBM i is struggling to attract new talent and persuade people to use up-do-date tools, well why not raise the barrier to entry even higher by charging a small fortune for them?"


Where I work we had a real struggle to buy RDi for the department, I don't know what was paid eventually, but the initial quotes were into the high tens of thousands of Euros for somewhere around 20 licences and as I freelancer I forked out well over a thousand euros for my own copy (the licencing for which is so complicated it's hard to even know what I bought!). And that's without the cost of licencing the ILE compilers you require to actually produce any code, without which RDi is just a very expensive editor.


It seems crazy that I can rent access to an IBM i for a year for a fifth of the price of an RDi licence to actually program anything on it. On the other hand, the entire rest of our web app stack which consists of Angular, Typescript, JavaEE etc., etc. is built using completely free tools. I truly believe if IBM had open-sourced RDi or perhaps even had a free version with basic source editing and a pro version with perhaps the local compilation etc. then the uptake would be much greater.

Tim.



________________________________
From: WDSCI-L <wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Brian Parkins <goodprophet.bp@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 04 March 2017 18:55
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Clientfor System i & iSeries
Subject: [WDSCI-L] RDi way ahead

Ooooh - this could an interesting discussion ...!
==========================
Except that neither Netbeans nor Visual Studio Code can handle IBM i programs!

I was sort of interested in the 'way ahead of RDi' part.
Potential RFE material rather than editor wars :-)

But this is potentially changing:

<https://github.com/NielsLiisberg/RPG-for-VSCode>
[https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/2787230?v=3&s=400]<https://github.com/NielsLiisberg/RPG-for-VSCode>

GitHub - NielsLiisberg/RPG-for-VSCode: IBMi RPG language ...<https://github.com/NielsLiisberg/RPG-for-VSCode>
github.com
README.md RPG README. RPG for IBMI is syntax for ILE FREE RPG from version
7.1 and above. Best regards. Niels Liisberg 2016. Known Issues. None so far



==========================

The RDi team do a fantastic job. Great product and support. Not perfect, but subject to continual improvement; with our help, it can only get better.
(iSphere - we thank you!)

However, the Big Problems are, (IMHumbleO):
- The relatively small audience for RDi. (I imagine it is difficult for Rational to justify major investment in a niche product.)
- The cost of licences. (Difficult for some organisations and especially individuals to justify the outlay.)

This story has been heard many times before. I'll say it again because my very recent experience with an IBM i client continues to underline the issue of costs. Not being an IBM i customer myself, I cannot say what level of discounts might be available, or what "trade-in" deals are on offer. What I _do_ know is, the individual cost of 855UKP (Authorised User with Perpetual Licence for 12-months) is just too much to swallow for individuals and smaller teams. I am reliably informed that this price is not much different, even with discounts and trade-ins of ADTS.

I know scores of IBM i developers who would _love_ to have RDi on their workstations. Sadly, the costs kill the argument. This in turn is doing the IBM i platform no good at all.

I've recently been playing around with the DBeaver SQL client tool. It is SO good and a dream to use with DB2 for i. It's based on Eclipse - and free. Then there's the iSphere tooling. So maybe one solution is in our own hands, as hinted at by the above Github link. Or maybe we should be supporting the MiWorkplace project; licence costs appear to be 25.50EUR. Very attractive.
(Not as sophisticated as RDi - but an affordable option.)

I have no answers, I just know there are many RPG IV developers out there who cannot get their hands on RDi because of the cost.

Brian.

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