Re: Web Services Solutions

I agree.  I love working Joe into a froth :-) 

I hope we at least added two viewpoints on potential tools for web 
services. 

Other viewpoints are welcome. 

Joe gets worked up when I talk about converting VB into Java bytecode. 
Point of fact is that's only 5% of what we use Visual Studio for but it's 
a great way to leverage existing Visual Studio VB or C# code to run 
natively on the iSeries. 

Here's another example where the VB to Java bytecode scenario can work 
well: We used Visual Studio and VB to recently create a Websphere Portlet 
for our WebDocs product.  Talk about cross-platform code re-use.  We 
re-used 99.5% of existing .Net code and it runs natively on iSeries or 
Windows or Linux.

<OMNI user group plug>
For the record my .Net class at OMNI will have nothing to do with VB to 
Java bytecode. We're teaching VB.Net and ASP.Net for iSeries developers 
:-)

My class is geared to help those of us who are "tried and true" RPG 
developers get a jump start to learning Visual Studio.  If you're 
interested in Visual Studio, don't be intimidated by Joe's viewpoint.  The 
"real-world" does use .Net with the iSeries to bring continuing value to 
the platform. 

And guess what, they use it in conjunction with RPG programs.  Very cool 
!!

Whether you come to see me or Joe, make sure to show up at the Omni User 
Conference on Feb 26th/27th  http://www.omniuser.org
</OMNI user group plug>

<COMMON user group plug>
Same class will be taught at common in Anaheim as a pre-conference 
workshop.
</COMMON user group plug>

I look forward to sharing my .Net expertise for those of you who really 
want to know more about it.

Onward:

Joe's missing the real issue of why .Net is important to ALL of us as 
iSeries developers. 

Here's the reality that I live with every day running a software product 
company:

Many more customers are asking about how to fend off attacks from the 
script kiddies who want to replace the iSeries with .Net/SQL Server based 
applications than are saying: "We just wrote or purchased this cool system 
in Java and it's going to help us keep our iSeries in-house."

I see many more people dumping the iSeries for .Net applications rather 
than Java applications.  Whether Joe agrees or not, that is the reality my 
software team deals with every day. 

My .Net message: Learn the importance of using a tool like .Net to 
leverage the iSeries as a powerful database server for native iSeries apps 
and for the Windows and Web applications the younger generation wants to 
see.  Unfortunately in corporate America sex sells and when it comes to 
Sex, MS Wins hands down and the 30-something CFO always goes for the 
option that looks the best.  In my experience it's not too often the Java 
option :-)

Just to be clear on my overall development position:  my team uses RPG, CL 
, Java, C#, VB, VB.Net, PHP, CGI-DEV and more... on a regular basis 
depending on the task at hand. 

Being fluent in several technologies allows my team to always be able to 
select the best tool and language for any given task.

For example:  We just wrote a native iSeries Java application that reads 
and writes calendar entries from a Domino mail file and populates a 
DB2/400 database.  That's all Java and all iSeries wrapped by CL commands 
and integrated with an RPG program. 

RPG, VB, C# and Java are ALL far from the "horse and buggy" approach that 
Joe jokes about. 

This is the part where we sing "Kumbaya" or "all we are saying is give 
peace a chance".

Don't be intimidated or dissuaded from using .Net technologies based on 
comments from Joe against Microsoft products. 

Also don't necessarily be convinced to use Java either based on Joe's or 
my comments. 

Make your own informed decisions after weighing both sides. 

I would love to do a real side-by-side class where we teach a beginning 
class for Java developers and let's say C# to keep it closer to Java for 
Joe's sake.  At the end of the class let's see who can be more productive. 
 I would take the Microsoft Visual Studio bet any day given real world 
experience with both sets of tools. 

For what it's worth :-)

Regards,
Richard Schoen
RJS Software Systems Inc. 
"Providing Your....iNFORMATION NOW!"
Email: richard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web Site: http://www.rjssoftware.com
Tel: (952) 898-3038
Fax: (952) 898-1781
Toll Free: (888) RJSSOFT

------------------------------------------------------------
message: 8
date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:56:43 -0500
from: "Eclipse User" <eclipse@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Web Services Solutions

LOL!

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Pluta [mailto:joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:28 PM
To: 'Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Web Services Solutions

From: richard@xxxxxxxxxxx

b>

I thought you were teaching a Java class.  Isn't that a new language or
did I get your topic wrong ? :-)

Well, I do teach the language that VB aspires to be.  I remove the middle
man.  (I find it amusing that the only way you can get platform 
independent
in the Microsoft world is by using the virtual machine that Microsoft
stopped supporting.)

But my jumpstart session is on WDSC for RPG programmers.  You know, that
OTHER language that Microsoft doesn't support.

My .Net examples will include RPG just as yours probably do.  If you're
only teaching WDSC RPG editing, I guess I will be broadening horizons
while you're teaching Window dressing for editing RPG.

If using BASIC is broadening horizons, then maybe you want to show them 
how
to drive a horse and buggy, too!

And not only that, but you have to use a third-party product to convert 
the
BASIC source into the bytecode of the language Microsoft tried to kill in
order to be able to use it on the iSeries.  ("Take this here horse, and 
hook
up a bag to its butt.  The horse will generate methane, which you can then
use to drive this horseless carriage.")

You and Rube Goldberg, baby!

As to "window dressing" for editing RPG, you say that as if editing RPG is 
a
bad thing.  Heck, you must be drinking that MS kool-aid!  You're beginning
to sound like all the other people who insist that RPG is dead and to dump
it in favor of something else.  Meanwhile, I can't think of anything more
important to the iSeries community than making RPG programmers more
productive.

Sorry, buddy, but BASIC isn't my idea of the future...

Nothing beats SEU for RPG <wink>.

Well I can see why you would like the green screen, since there is no way 
to
debug RPG code in Visual Studio.  There's productivity for you...

Maybe someday someone will write a tool that converts one of Microsoft's
many syntaxes into w-code.  Then you can run natively on the iSeries, and
write your code using EDTF!

Thanks, Richard, but I'll stick with RPG, and use Java or EGL as my
interface.  And I'll debug the entire application without leaving my IDE.

And in the meantime, the Microsoft advocates can write code in BASIC that 
is
converted to Java bytecode, and debug their RPG code in the green screen, 
at
least until they dump the iSeries and outsource the whole project to some
offshore .NET/SQL Server firm.

Joe