RE: Removing a plug-in -- WDSCI-L

Your obviously free to pursue that if you wish, but I do not see why.  IBM 
doesn't state there are any limitations on their support, just are there 
aren't any on Apache in OS/400.  WebSphere Application Server also uses 
many open source components and there are no questions about its support.

Mark



wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 10/05/2004 01:39:01 PM:

> And I don't mean to slam IBM. It's not lost on me that I've received 
some
> excellent support from IBM developers through this very list. 
> 
> Maybe what is needed is less a change in how IBM supports the 
WDSCi-Eclipse
> combination than an explicit and easily located clarification of IBM's
> support given that half of the combination is open source. That is, 
maybe
> it's a marketing issue more than a technical issue.  But it would still 
be
> nice to have the clarification from IBM itself.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelly
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mark Phippard
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:28 PM
> To: Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries
> Subject: RE: [WDSCI-L] Removing a plug-in
> 
> 
> We (users) are the only ones that have attempted to put any 
qualifications 
> on IBM's support.  I have never seen any suggestion from IBM that WDSC 
is 
> anything other than a fully supported IBM product.  Here are the Release 

> Notes for Eclipse 2.1.3.  Scroll to the bottom to see all of the bugs 
that 
> have been fixed.  If you sample some you will see that the majority were 

> fixed by IBM resources.
> 
> 
http://download.eclipse.org/downloads/drops/R-2.1.3-200403101828/readme_ecli
> pse_2_1_3.html
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wdsci-l-bounces+markp=softlanding.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 10/05/2004 
> 01:17:35 PM:
> 
> > Good points, Mark. 
> > 
> > I would still feel more comfortable if IBM explicitly said something 
> like:
> > "If an Eclipse bug prevents WDSCi from delivering functionality 
> described in
> > WDSCi documentation, IBM will fix it." 
> > 
> > Your differentiation between a bug that prevents expected functioning 
> and a
> > product enhancement is a point well-taken.  The plug-in uninstall 
issue 
> is
> > more of a product enhancement.
> > 
> > Kelly
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mark Phippard
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:03 PM
> > To: Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries
> > Subject: RE: [WDSCI-L] Removing a plug-in
> > 
> > 
> > WDSC is definitely commercially supported.  If you found a problem 
that 
> > ultimately was a bug in Eclipse, I am sure that IBM would work to 
ensure 
> 
> > that the bug was reported and fixed in Eclipse and that fix would make 

> its 
> > way back into WDSC as soon as possible.  Just as an example, WDSC 
5.1.2 
> > comes with Eclipse 2.1.3 (as opposed to 2.1.0).  The vast majority of 
> the 
> > fixes between 2.1.0 and 2.1.3 were contributed by IBM based on bugs 
the 
> > users of the IBM tools discovered.
> > 
> > I think the gray area is when you start moving beyond true bugs into 
> > things you just would like to work differently or better.  SEU is 
> > commercially supported but if you call IBM and say that SEU should 
have 
> a 
> > function key that pops up a list of all variables used in the source 
and 
> 
> > allows you to click on one to go to that line of code they are not 
going 
> 
> > to do much about it for you.  Requests that are essentially 
enhancements 
> 
> > to Eclipse would be similar.  However, if anything WDSC should be a 
> better 
> > product because there are more people using and enhancing that Eclipse 

> > foundation.
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 10/05/2004 12:42:18 PM:
> > 
> > > I think Toolbox may be a little different. My understanding of 
Toolbox 
> 
> > (and
> > > someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that IBM ships a version of 
> Toolbox 
> > in
> > > the iSeries IFS and supports that version like other IBM products. 
> This
> > > makes Toolbox different than Eclipse.
> > > 
> > > >The community behind the open-source product supports it.  This in 
> > > >itself has good and bad points.  A 'normal' product has the same 
type 
> 
> > of
> > > support 
> > > >issues.
> > > 
> > > Maybe I'm missing something. If I have a problem with WebSphere 
> > Application
> > > Server not deploying a Web Module properly (has never 
happened...just
> > > fictional example), I feel confident I can call IBM and get support, 

> and
> > > they will work on the problem immediately and come up with a 
solution. 
> 
> > When
> > > I actually had this problem with my Tomcat server (Tomcat 5 needed 
to 
> > have
> > > the tools.jar file from my sdk copied into its common\lib 
directory), 
> I 
> > had
> > > to spend hours sifting through Web pages and email lists to find 
what 
> I
> > > hoped was a working solution. If I hadn't gotten lucky and stumbled 
> > across a
> > > solution, well, then what? This seems like a major difference 
between 
> a
> > > licensed product with paid support and an open source product with
> > > 'community' support.
> > > 
> > > Please feel free to enlighten me. :-)
> > > Kelly
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Scott Johnson
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:17 AM
> > > To: Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries
> > > Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Removing a plug-in
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If these companies have this mentality then they really don't 
> understand 
> > 
> > > open-source.  The community behind the open-source product supports 
> it.
> > > This in 
> > > itself has good and bad points.  A 'normal' product has the same 
type 
> of
> > > support 
> > > issues.
> > > 
> > > The Java Toolbox for iSeries is also based on an open-source
> > > project(JTOpen). 
> > > More direct basis than WDSC to eclipse though.  And from what I have 

> > heard
> > > and 
> > > seen, it is working out great.
> > > 
> > > As for WDSC, as far as I know IBM 'picks' a version of Eclipse and 
> > builds
> > > the 
> > > stuff on top of it.  I would also think that if you had a problem 
with 
> 
> > WDSC
> > > that 
> > > related back to something in Eclipse, they would fix it.
> > > 
> > > -- Scott J
> > > 
> > > Kelly Cookson wrote:
> > > 
> > > > IBM's choice to put WDSCi on top of an open source product 
> introduces 
> > the
> > > > same question that keep companies from going with other 
open-source
> > > > products: who's going to support it? As long as IBM feels free to 
> not 
> > work
> > > > on Eclipse problems, and Eclipse has no obligation to WDSCi users, 

> > then
> > > > there's a crack in the support infrastructure. Uninstalling 
plug-ins 
> 
> > is
> > > not
> > > > a mission critical issue. I'm just saying it reflects a less than 
> > perfect
> > > > support situation.
> > > > 
> > > > Kelly 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > 
> > 
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