RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA license fee -- SYSTEM21

Nancy,

I checked our contract and lo and behold, we have the same verbiage in our
contract about "may incur additional user license fees in connection with
the transfer of the software product(s) from one processor or platform...".
I'm certain our sales rep said that this wasn't an issue, but of course he
is long gone.  We already have about twice as many user license fees as we
have users (long story), but thankfully at this time we have more than
enough processing capacity on our existing system.  Anyway, thanks for
starting this thread because it alerts me to a potential roadblock to
upgrading our system in the future.

As for your performance problem, we've used Objects some and I would be
happy to review (no charge of course) your Objects query if you want to
e-mail me the SQL statements from your Object Query.  Do Query, View and
you'll see the SQL in Notepad.  Save that file and e-mail  that.  I'm
recommending this approach since I'm guessing you're on 6.1 or later of
Objects and we're on 6.0.  I'm guessing there may be some issues with access
paths your query is using and I'm making the assumption your G/L files can't
be that large with the number of users you have.

I thought I heard there was a way to make the ODBC server jobs
(QZDASOINIT)initiated by Objects run at a lower priority than other
interactive jobs, but we've never figured it out.  Maybe some AS/400 whiz
can help with that.  Of course then your Objects jobs would take longer, but
I figure that is acceptable.  

Dan Thomas
Sr. VP Information Systems
MDI
4500 Progress Blvd.
Louisville, KY  40218-5058
Phone (502) 454-9013 ext. 120
email  DThomas@lpw-mdi.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Henson, Nancy [mailto:NHENSON@alltrista.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:58 AM
To: JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com
Subject: RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee
Importance: High


Dan,

>From John Peterman's email it appears that JBA used the model and processor
to determine the number of users.  Our 720 is the entry level, I think 2061.
Our reason for the 720 for only 30 users is what we are running.  We have
several Objects queries that export to Excel via the Smart Server.  If we
run these during the day everyone on the system is slowed down.  Just
yesterday we had three people in Systems working in Objects and they all ran
their queries at the same time and several people were complaining about
response time (we have not migrated to our 720 yet).  One of the Objects
queries was using 40% of the CPU.  Our reason for the 720 is not number of
users but type of processing.

In our contract it does state that if we move the software to another
processor we may be required to purchase additional licenses.  At the time
we negotiated our contract (Dec. 1996)we decided on the number of users we
needed but did not realize that it was in our contract about possibly having
to buy more users.  We knew that if we 'needed' more users we would buy
them.  The most users we have had logged into System 21 at a time is about
23.  Our VP Finance talked to our sales rep about the additional users and
we did get a reduced rate due to purchasing the hardware through them but we
still had to purchase the additional users.  We did not think we had the
time to talk to our lawyer about this but as it turns out we may have had
the time.  There was some confusion on our order for the 720 and the
operating system and IBM did not send the operating system.  First I was
told we had already ordered it and then I was told they had no record of us
ordering it.  So I have been calling our sales rep daily to find out when we
will be getting it so I can schedule the migration.  We have had the 720
since the end of March and it will be June before we can use it.  Our
response time is slow when we run Objects and our %system ASP used is 86%.
Ask me if I'm having fun yet  :)


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Thomas [mailto:DThomas@lpw-mdi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:06 PM
To: 'JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com'
Subject: RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee


Nancy,  

Why was Hitachi required to buy 170 licenses for a 720 and you are only
required to buy 40?  As Stuart stated, maybe this is really a processor
group issue.  Also, out of curiosity, why do you need a 720 for only 30
users?  As for the private e-mail, I for one would like to follow your story
so if you keep sending to this list I will read with interest.  Thanks.

Dan Thomas
Sr. VP Information Systems
MDI
4500 Progress Blvd.
Louisville, KY  40218-5058
Phone (502) 454-9013 ext. 120
email  DThomas@lpw-mdi.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Henson, Nancy [mailto:NHENSON@alltrista.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:18 PM
To: JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com
Subject: RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee
Importance: High


Stuart,
It is my understanding that it is System 21 licenses, not Client Access.  I
reread that section in the contract and it refers to the software products
specified in the software products schedule and the schedule lists all the
System 21 applications.  Nothing is mentioned about Client Access.  Also I
checked with my source about Hitachi and they already had 120 users on their
620 and JBA was requiring them to go to 170 on the 720.  An increase of 50
for System 21 licenses.  When we purchased our 10 extra users, we purchased
them from JBA (Geac) not IBM.  Client Access is purchased with the AS/400.

Nancy



-----Original Message-----
From: Allen, Stuart [mailto:sallen@fellowes.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 10:26 AM
To: 'JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com'
Subject: RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee


Hi Nancy,

Re Hitachi, are you sure it was System 21 licences, and not Client Access?
Reason being, for each processor group, once you buy a certain number of CA
licences, that allowes you unlimed CA users. (ie on our P20 machine 100
licences = NOMAX).  As a 620 -> 720 upgrade can involve a change in
processor group, they may have had to purchase additional CA licences to
cover the new shortfall.

Regards,
Stuart
                                     
Stuart Allen
European Systems Analyst
Fellowes

mailto:sallen@fellowes.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henson, Nancy [SMTP:NHENSON@alltrista.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:33 PM
> To:   JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com
> Subject:      RE: AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee
> Importance:   High
> 
> Yes, we have.  We purchased a 720 and are planning to migrate our data
> from
> a model 400 to the 720.  We have a 30 user license and JBA said we need to
> purchase an additional 10 to get us to 40.  We do not have all of the
> System
> 21 application but there are very few that we do not have.  I have also
> heard that JBA said that Hitachi, who already had over 100 users on a 620,
> needed to purchase additional licenses to move to a 720.  I do not
> understand how they determine the number of users required.  If someone
> from
> Hitachi is on this distribution list they may want to respond.  Also, it
> would be good if someone from JBA could explain how they determine the
> number of users.  :)  
> 
> Angus, if you want you can email me directly at nhenson@alltrista.com and
> we
> can discuss this further.
> 
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From:       Angus Appleby - Unwins Seeds
> > [mailto:aappleby@unwins-seeds.co.uk] 
> > Sent:       Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:41 AM
> > To: 'JBAUSERS-L@midrange.com'
> > Subject:    AS/400 upgrade - JBA licence fee
> > 
> > I am looking to upgrade my AS/400 620-2175 to (probably) a 720 machine.
> We
> > currently have a user licence of 50 users on System 21 and dont want or
> > require any more. JBA want to charge us a large fee based on a minimum
> > user count of the machine we want to upgrade to. Have any of you come
> > across a similar situation? Any ideas/suggestions on how to get the
> costs
> > down?
> > 
> > TIA
> > 
> > Angus
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