Re: where can I download a RPG/400 guide?

Comments in-line.

On Jul 16, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Eddie Gomez <gmon750@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You know, you can discuss the “benefits” as if that person’s individual use-case applies to each and every other shop, but in the end it’s moot. Our company, as well as countless others, have commitments RPG/400. It works, many programs are decades old and continues to work perfectly with zero modifications. Converting it to RPGIV or ILERPG - for those objects - and the resources/manpower for little to no benefit makes no sense… in our use case.

Fine. Nobody (particularly me) suggested converting program that stays as-is without changes.

Don’t get me wrong… I love coding in ILERPG. Many of our more modern apps are coded in ILERPG, and in /free format to boot. But the 95% core system is RPG/400. As an individual, I’d love for our system to be all up and current on everything, but we also have a business to run and our higher-ups will not be keen to be convinced of doing that when the net-effect is that everyone works exactly as it has before.

To repeat - I only suggest converting when there is maintenance being performed. Why convert? If for no other reason than because in addition to using more modern features, the tooling such as RDi is all oriented to RPG IV. We recently helped an RPG newbie transition to using RDi for the upgrade and maintenance functions he was asked to perform. After a couple fo weeks he reckoned that he was 2X more efficient because he can find his way around the code and identify the change points (and perhaps more importantly the potential impact points) at light speed compared with SEU. Personally I'd convert for that reason if no other.

I could tell you right now in my 30+ years of IBM experience that converting our full manufacturing facility’s ERP package to RPGIV is way, way more than “just a weekend”. Sounds like this person works for a small shop, and good that they were able to do it in a weekend.

The package was JDE. And I've seen it done not once but at least three times in different shops. I have no idea why you think it is so complicated. Run it through CVTRPGSRC if there are issues (and there are very, very few) then address them. Convert each program the next time it needs maintnenance. Bang - eventually every program that is subject to ongoing changes is converted and can take advantage of new features.

I’m a firm believer that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. New/specialized development is done with whatever fits the scope of the project of our facility, be it RPG/400 or ILERPG/Java. I do find it odd that the OP is not allowed to code in ILERPG for new projects. That’s a bummer. Packaged code I can understand, but entirely new stuff should matter.

If it needs maintenance it is "broke" by definition.

If IBM did what Apple does and tell them to get current or else, IBMi would have gone extinct ages ago. IBMi customers have a lot of money invested in their systems/packages and its not in IBM’s interest to tell their customers what to do. It’s why IBMi is still kicking strong today. Code developed 30 years ago (or longer) sill runs today with zero maintenance. That means IBM can sell those customers shiny, expensive new hardware to run their old legacy code and keep them happy.

I never said that IBM should insist on customers doing anything. I said they should have pressured ISVs to update their packages. Something they could easily have done given the amount of on-site resource they were dumping into people like JDE. Instead they let them get away with leaving the software to go stale and thereby ultimately encourage people to move to their new packages on "shiny new" systems. Ultimately this was a disservice to their customers but many of them didn't care because they could go on milking the customers lie (apparently) yours. Does it not occur to you that by being stuck using RPG III the ISVs themselves are unable to easily implement modern functionality. In what way does that help their customers?

Anyway - it is too latte for many of them now. they have provided an easy target for the SAPs of this world and eventually lose the business.

My 2-cents at today’s market rates.

On Jul 16, 2020, at 13:28, Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Because it does provide significant benefit in the case of program maintenance.

Admittedly:

_if_using a package from an antiquated vendor who insists on sticking with an out-of-date language forno good reason

and _if_ you are taking regular maintenance updates from the vendor

The maybe.

JDE is one such package. It is so hard to switch it to RPG IV that several one man shops have made the conversion by themselves over a weekend! Yup - it is such a huge effort with so many compatibility issues that it took a while weekend!

Sadly IBM did not hold many of the ISV's feet to the fire as they should have done and we all pay the price because (as I thin Vern noted) we become seen as an obsolete out-of-date platform.

Sigh .....

On Jul 16, 2020, at 4:11 PM, Eddie Gomez <gmon750@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Our ERP system is still RPG/400 with countless of vendor-supplied /copy includes coded in RPG/400, and their API’s as well. We do ILERPG/Java where needed, but we’re still predominantly an RPG/400 shop. There is zero benefit for us to convert anything to RPGIV or ILERPG. New development where applicable is done in ILE, but it’s more the exception than the rule.

If converting RPG/400 to RPGIV provides little to no benefit other than converting the code, why do it?

I suppose I can understand the higher-ups banning the process.

On Jul 16, 2020, at 12:56, Ignacio Garcia <cascada3405@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Weird....when everybody wants to do the opposite way

El jue., 16 de jul. de 2020 2:52 PM, Brian Parkins <goodprophet.bp@xxxxxxxxx>
escribió:

Just to be pedantic and for the avoidance of any doubt, is your
management aware that converting to the RPG IV syntax and using ILE
features are two quite different, separate things?

You can convert to the RPG IV language with confidence; many, many
others have done so and it works. ILE is not a consideration, unless you
actually want to take advantage of its facilities. So, you convert
RPG/400 to RPG IV, (not ILE).

There has always been some confusion over this because RPG IV is often
referred to as ILE RPG, (To distinguish it from RPG/400.) Good old CL is
also an ILE language. I bet they don't stop you using that! (The syntax
is no different.)

Brian.

On 16/07/2020 19:48, dfreinkel wrote:

I have been banned from converting to ILE.

Thanks
Darryl Freinkel

--
This is the RPG programming on IBM i (RPG400-L) mailing list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at https://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related
questions.

Help support midrange.com by shopping at amazon.com with our affiliate
link: https://amazon.midrange.com

--
This is the RPG programming on IBM i (RPG400-L) mailing list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at https://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support midrange.com by shopping at amazon.com with our affiliate link: https://amazon.midrange.com

--
This is the RPG programming on IBM i (RPG400-L) mailing list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at https://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support midrange.com by shopping at amazon.com with our affiliate link: https://amazon.midrange.com

--
This is the RPG programming on IBM i (RPG400-L) mailing list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at https://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support midrange.com by shopping at amazon.com with our affiliate link: https://amazon.midrange.com

--
This is the RPG programming on IBM i (RPG400-L) mailing list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at https://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support midrange.com by shopping at amazon.com with our affiliate link: https://amazon.midrange.com