On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 7/3/2017 11:19 AM, Bradley Stone wrote:
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
3) RPG is not the strongest language on any platform (including IBM i)
to write a web app. [1]
[1] Write a web app in RPG that uses your state's GIS web service and
the Google Maps API to map the hilltops in your county higher than a
user-selectable elevation. Good luck, pioneer! How easy is it to use a
language which has no examples?
Similar example of that here:
https://www.fieldexit.com/forum/display?threadid=429
Nice. Even better (ie more business-related) than my contrived example.
Yes, it uses jQuery, but that should be standard on any web app these days.
Yep.
RPG with a nice toolkit like CGIDEV2 or eRPG SDK is a great web
application tool, especially if your data is on an IBM i.
Does this make RPG the strongest web dev language?
Compared to what on the IBM i? Net.Data? WebSphere?
And what skillset does our programmer have? Before we can say x or y
is the strongest web dev language there are a lot of parameters to
define.
If we say an RPG programmer using an IBM i that also knows HTML, JS
and CSS, I'd say RPG in a heartbeat. But most want to use
screenscrapers, WYSIWYG stuff, and tookits that hide the important
functionality behind things that I feel are good to know (JS, CSS,
etc)
IBM never got behind RPG as a web programming language. CGIDEV2 was
the most they'd do (ie, hosting the download). When I worked at my
full time job years ago and had just written my first eRPG book, the
IBM reps would say "oh ya.. you're the 'e-RPG guy'" with a chuckle.
Pointing and laughing under their breath. True story. So I know how
IBM feels about RPG and those that push it for web applications.
Using RPG for Web makes IBM zero dollars. So they don't push it.
Never have, never will.
Specifically:
Fewer examples.
Spartan documentation.
Few tutorials.
If we look at it in a ratio of RPG programmers to say, .Net, there are
fewer RPG programmers by far, so fewer examples, documentation and
tutorials. ie, a smaller audience.
But in a relative sense it's fairly equal, or at least there was.
These days in a very divided and smaller population of RPG
programmers, there just isn't much reward for doing things like
writing books, articles, etc any more. Everyone wants "free" stuff.
But the material that is out there is a perfect base for the RPG
programmer to start learning how to write web apps, and those skills
will translate to a new platform if that comes to pass for them in
their career. And they will even translate to web services, both
building and consuming them.
Don't get me wrong: I love RPG and always will. I'm not dismissing RPG
as unsuitable for web work. But from my own personal experience, I have
never, not once, seen a team of people who were life long web developers
choose RPG as their go-to language, and all of my data has always been
on IBM i.
Is there an element of 'use what ya know?' Absolutely. The question
then is this: If RPG were easier / more flexible to use than say .NET
or PHP for web apps, why don't web teams switch?
Skill set mainly. If I sit down with an RPG programmers and poof,
they suddenly know HTML, JS and CSS, web apps with RPG suddenly became
easier than creating a subfile program.
But what I find RPG programmers struggle with is those "new to them"
ideas. The RPG is no problem. But the traditional RPG programmer
close to retirement doesn't seem to want to learn. Or they're way to
busy keeping the existing software as is running.
People seem to think of "programmers" these days as hipster young kids
creating flashy billboard type web pages. It seems they've forgotten
about the traditional programmers who does inventory, AR, AP, and
keeps the core of the business running.
Shops seem to have dropped the traditional operator, and a couple
programmers and a help desk with just one programmer to do everything.
With any web app language the same skill base is required. RPG
programmers just aren't used to that type of environment and instead
others are hired with different skill sets to do the job. (I am one
of those that has been hired 3rd party to do quite a few web
applications...luckily they prefer to use RPG as well.)
If most of the RPG programmers had the desire to learn instead of wait
out until retirement, or just get a paycheck, it would be a wonderful
place.
Bradley V. Stone
www.bvstools.com
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