Re: RPG - I'm not dead yet!

[Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

John,

are you sitting with an IBM System/3 model 6 manual ?


On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Not only has RPG grown during its lifespan, e.g. ILE support, from fixed
> format
> to free, %bif-support, xml-into etc. it has also grown with a large number
> of libraries
> such as CGIDEV2, LIBFTP, LIBHTTP and many others around it and there is
> a lot of development platforms (IDE's) out there as well.
>
> John mention that IBM I has a build in VM on top of SLIC and that is bad,
> but
> think again, what does the VM in VM-ware stand for, how do you create
> LPAR's
> without VM's technology?
>
> And by the way after Window 3.1, that caused a lot of problems because a
> single programmer could take complete control, Microsoft started to develop
> Windows NT that in the start was know as OS/2 V3 - yes it was based on
> IBM tech.
>
> And while writing this - John came in and i need to comment - are you crazy
> -
> both DB2 and RPG supports dates in any format because a datefield is a
> special field that contains a binary number of the relative date - its just
> before I
> write like I often sees in the Sencha forum "read the f******* manual"!
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:29 PM, john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Ok.....
> >
> > The reason why, IMHO, RPG is a "fatal" flaw is because most RPG
> > programmers
> > are "raised" with a "language" that doesn't support all kind of trivial
> > things, like normal dates, like "free format", local variables, long
> > variable names (we have indicators), only columnar format, only
> > subroutines
> > and no any other way of abstraction, JUST subroutines (yes thanks to
> > OS/400
> > we can call other programs as modules but again this is not a language
> > feature), etc etc.
> >
> > This is were most RPG programmers are at.
> > Only 1% use ILE RPGIV (which is feature wise comparable to C from the 60's
> > but anyway a lot better than before).
> > Why is it that only 1% use "modern" RPG?
> >
> > Because RPG exists since 1950 and only the last 10 years it evolved,
> > somewhat.
> > I am exagerating, but only a little bit, unfortunately.
> >
> > Most RPG'ers don't have any knowledge of good software development
> > practices, like abstraction, etc.
> > Learning a (natural) language shapes your mind.
> > If you learn a language like RPGII, or III, and this is your only language
> > and only knowlegde then something like "local variables" sound strange and
> > not useful, only making things complicated. Try convincing somebody with
> > only "classic" RPG experience the advantages of local variables. It's just
> > completely alien.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Joe Pluta <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, Jerry.  That's a pretty cogent synopsis of the situation with a
> > > very low geek factor.
> > >
> > > And yes, C was a godsend for me.  While I was learning RPG, I also
> > > learned assembly language and then C, and understanding the basic C
> > > syntax has served as a solid foundation for many of the other languages
> > > I've learned over the years, including C++, Java and JavaScript.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm not nearly as well versed in these things as you and Joe, but why
> > > would
> > > > one consider RPG (and here I'm assuming ILE RPG) to be an Achilles'
> > Heel?
> > > > An Achilles' Heel is a weak point (usually a fatal one).  Just because
> > > it's
> > > > tied so closely to the system (using, I think, the system's data
> > > management
> > > > routines among other things) shouldn't be cause for alarm.  As Joe and
> > > JHHL,
> > > > among others, have pointed out it always helps to be multilingual.
> >  Makes
> > > me
> > > > wish I hadn't given up on C those many years ago.
> > > >
> > > > RPG is not a fatal flaw - in my opinion - as long as Toronto keeps
> > > growing
> > > > it.  Which they seem intent upon doing.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry C. Adams
> > >
> > > --
> > > This is the RPG programming on the IBM i / System i (RPG400-L) mailing
> > list
> > > To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
> > > or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > > at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.
> > --
> > This is the RPG programming on the IBM i / System i (RPG400-L) mailing
> > list
> > To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l
> > or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l.
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Henrik Rützou
>
>  http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>