RE: Simple Subfile question -- RPG400-L

Can you print anything in java?

Subfiles did not get left behind, DDS got left behind.  Why? Because of that
language standardization of which you write.  Whoopee, here comes SQL.  Has
anyone seen my data dictionary or field reference files????

You're looking for the Esperanto of programming languages.  Good Luck.  I'll
take a pass.  Try and find the real Esperanto.  Are there English words in
Russian, Spanish, etc?  Sure, and vice versa (hey!  Latin!).  But the
languages are still different and will always be so.  Then we could discuss
dialects.  Perhaps with the Chinese?  Consider the different alphabets
around the globe.  Heck, put a person from NJ in a room with a person from
AL and chaos will ensue.  

The advantage of RPG is that it is IBM's language.  Want something cool
added? Just convince Barbara, Hans or better yet George Farr, that there's a
business case for it and you can get it. Maybe not all of it, maybe not the
way you'd like it, but nothing's perfect -- not even the eServer iSeries
as/438.  Want a change to Cobol, C++, Java, etc?  Write up the RFC and send
it on the journey through heck and see what happens.  And when. Or be Billy
G and just do it your own way, and to heck with the common good.  Java --
RIP.

You want subfiles built into RPG?  Then what about COBOL?  BASIC? C? Java?  

What you have with subfiles is basically just an API that you need to learn,
master, and get over.  You pass some information and an arcane combination
of switches and voila.  Stuff happens.  It's just another api, if you can
master user spaces, user memory allocations, list api's, etc than sfl's
should be a snap.  You get one that works and use it as a template.

What other language or system supports subfiles?  So should we kill them to
make RPG more industry standard?  Heck no!  There is an alternative to
learning subfiles... don't bother and program without them.  Maybe in
java... 

In short (too late, I know) "Basic, C, Pascal, RPG" et al ARE "very unique
specific languages" that HAVE "different ways to do things, and some" CANNOT
"do some things at all."  As are Java, C++, etc.  Choose the one that works
the best for what you're trying to do.  Perhaps there's some way to imitate
subfiles using stdout?



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Langston [mailto:jimlangston@conexfreight.com]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:12 PM
To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
Subject: Re: Simple Subfile question


Yes, isn't it great that most computer languages aren't like that anymore?
At one time Basic, C, Pascal, RPG were very unique specific languages.  They
each had different ways to do things, and some couldn't do some things at
all
(Remember basic's PEEK and POKE statements?).  But, dang, you know what?
All
these languages have gotten closer through the years!  

I love what they have been doing with RPG, truly I do!  Now it is much much
easier to write and maintain programs, RPG II is almost a totally different
language than RPG IV, as it should be, it has matured.

But somewhere in the maturing process, subfiles got left behind.  Waaaaaaay
behind.  

But I guess IBM is assuming I'll be programing all my UI's in Java.  Come on
Java101!  

Regards,

Jim Langston

Okay, I'm done grumbling now.  Got it all out of my system, sorry you all
had to hear it.

"Westdorp, Tom" wrote:
> 
> I've spoken English for 51 years, at one time spoke Russian, studied Latin
> for 4 years, and also took a couple of semesters of German.  However I can
> barely order 'mas cerveza' and ask 'donde esta el bano'.  Must be
something
> wrong with Spanish, it's just too hard.  Wholey frijole!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Langston [mailto:jimlangston@conexfreight.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 1:24 PM
> To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: Simple Subfile question
> 
> 1. I have created subfiles in the past.  And they weren't as difficult as
> this
>    one is.  Nor should they be.
> 2. I never said you don't need knowledge and experience.  I've been
> programming
>    since I was 10 years old (literally) and am now 37 years old. I've been
>    programming professionally since I was 24 or so, about 13 years
> professional
>    experience in many different languages on a few platforms.  Do I expect
>    a middle school to be able to program the things I do?  No.
> 3. What is my 13 years professional experience, and my 14 years unpaid
> experience,
>    chopped liver?
> 4. Yes.  So why didn't they improve subfiles before giving it to us?  Or
> improving
>    them over the years?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jim Langston
> 
> Rick Childers wrote:
> >
> > Maybe they are design flaws and I have just gotten used to them.  But it
> is
> > obvious that the mistakes that you were making, come from inexperience
> with
> > AS400 subfiles.
> >   You said "Well, why should I need that much experience to do subfiles
to
> > be able to do one?"
> > 1. It doesn't take a programmer THAT MUCH experience to be able to
create
> a
> > subfile. (Unless your a hamburger shy of a Happy Meal) But the more
> > experience you have with anything, the more tricks/tips you learn, and
the
> > better, more efficient you will be at it.  I didn't have to consult a
> manual
> > to know what you were doing wrong with your code. Why? Because I made
the
> > same mistakes with my first as400 subfile program. By making those
> mistakes
> > I learned the proper way to create a subfile.
> > 2.  If you don't need knowledge or experience to program then any Middle
> > School kid that knows what a mouse is could take your job. Or maybe even
> > upper management writing their own programs. Personnaly I think we are
all
> > better off keeping mgmt using spreadsheets & the programs that WE
create.
> > 3.  You have to pay your dues.
> > 4.  Anything worth while is worth waiting for.
> >
> >    But hey, that's just an AS400 programmer's opinion.
> >
> > >From: Jim Langston <jimlangston@conexfreight.com>
> > >Reply-To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
> > >To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
> > >Subject: Re: Simple Subfile question
> > >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:58:56 -0700
> > >
> > >Well, why should I need that much experience to do subfiles to be able
to
> > >do one?  I understand that's the way they are, but why?  I don't have
> > >this type of trouble with subfile type programs in windows.  In any
> > >language,
> > >C++, VB, Delphi.
> > >
> > >I consider it a design flaw.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Jim Langston
> > >
> > >Rick Childers wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You just need a little more experience with subfiles.  After a
while,
> > >when
> > > > you have a subfile problem, you will know exactly how to fix it
> without
> > >even
> > > > giving it much thought.  Then you will be cruisin'.
> > > >       Good luck,
> > > > Rick Childers
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