Re: Code/400

Actually, the guy that does my drive way has a truck with a plow (about
$1500 addition, beyond the truck) and does it in 15 minutes. He gets $20
bucks whether it takes him an hour or 5 minutes. But with his professional
tools he can do 20 to 50 driveways a day.

But like your example, that isn't the same as SEU vs CodeStudio or Code/400.
You can be as productive in SEU as you can be in Code/400.

But now we're moving into a world where single, large RPGIII source members
are going to give way to multiple source members per program. So it would be
nice to have a tool that could handle that situation. SEU does not. Sure you
can open a million TN5250 sessions and have SEU running in all of them, and
change your LIBL in all of them.  But as some point, just like you would
with a show shovel, you'll run out of energy. If you were using a tool
designed to quicken the larger jobs, you would still be going.

Granted using a shovel or a plow for a small job doesn't compare. It is far
easier to walk over and clear a small sidewalk. A plow is over kill. But if
you plow driveways for a living, you will quickly run out of time as more
and more customers are added. At what point do you decide to buy the plow or
power blower?

A professional normally uses his professional tool for most jobs so that
he/she becomes the most efficient and productive they can with that tool.

SEU was written in 1982 and shipped with S/38 CPF release 2.0. It was called
SEU II for a while. The reason you're using it today, is because IBM
effectively gave it away. It is a very good tool.

Here's an example of how using a profession tool like CODE/400 or CodeStudio
can help. By spending money on one of these tools you add to the evolution
of the tool. SEU is NOT being enhanced. The next exit programs added in the
recent releases was to allow IBM to say "We don't intend on enhancing SEU,
but you can add that feature yourself by writing an exit program..."

If you pay money for CodeStudio or CODE/400 those support teams can add new
features to those tools. For example, I recently wrote and include with
CodeStudio a "Procedure Wizard". It's a simply tool that allows you to
quickly create a new procedure, its prototype, and parameter list and save
it to a source member. Why doesn't that feature exist in SEU? Because IBM is
not enhancing SEU.




Bob Cozzi
www.rpgiv.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Berendt <rob@dekko.com>
To: <RPG400-L@midrange.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Code/400


> Let's see.  If I get paid $5/hr to clear a sidewalk of snow
> and I can do it in four hours with a shovel I'll make $15.
> $20 - $5 cost of shovel.  Or I can do it in 15 minutes with
> a snow blower.  $1.25 - $500 = ($498.75).  Of course if you
> disregard the intangibles of a chiropractor.  But I've had
> consultants use this logic.  Write their own EDI instead of
> buy a package.  When you ask them for an interface from EDI
> to canned ERP software.
>
> What is the cost/user of SEU versus the cost/user of Code/400?
> Disregarding that you have to purchase the set that SEU uses
> in order to use Code/400.  Was this because SEU cost that much
> less to develop, or, because of GUI price gouging?  I am not
> even comparing this to mass market Windows tools.  Compare
> this to another example.  I can buy a gizmo to convert one
> twinax port to 7 twisted pair cheap.  If I buy the exact same
> thing but in a rack mounted version I'll pay $1000 more.
> Metal ain't that expensive.  It is the belief that if you use
> rack mounted equipment then you must be a big iron shop and
> used to paying exorbitant prices.  I can give more similar
> examples.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> cozzi@rpgiv.com on 07/01/99 03:12:25 PM
> Please respond to RPG400-L@midrange.com@Internet
> To: RPG400-L@midrange.com@Internet
> cc:
> Fax to:
> Subject: RE: Code/400
>
>
>
> On the cost of the product issue, there are millions of variables, but
> fundamentally, the AS/400 market with 1 percent of the market of say,
> Windows would require a higher price for exactly the same tool used under
> Windows. Hence OS/400 is thousands of dollars, whereas Windows 98 is $89.
>
> If you can sell a product to 20 to 80 million potential customers you can
> spread the cost out for the market share you expect to sell. If you can
only
> sell to 10,000 customers, then you have to price for that.
>
> At 10,000 is probably a high figure in the AS/400 world. Few, if any
> software vendors have 10,000 customers. Some have more, but most have few
> than 2,000 or so. The funny thing is, that since we all also use PCs, a
lot
> of AS/400 programmers expect development tools for the AS/400 to be the
same
> price as development tools for the PC. In fact, many of them expect those
> tools to cost less.
>
> I PC developer will gladly spend $500+ per year on themselves--regardless
of
> what the company spends on the in addition to that $500. AS/400
programmers
> won't spend a dime of their own money on their own tools, and (I believe)
> they don't have the budget authority or input to get tools put into next
> years budget.  "Why buy a new TV, when they're giving away free vacuum
tube
> sets at work?"
>
>
>
> Bob Cozzi
>
> http://www.RPGIV.com
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rpg400-l@midrange.com [mailto:owner-rpg400-l@midrange.com]On
> > Behalf Of Rob Berendt
> > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 11:38 AM
> > To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Code/400
> >
> >
> > I did some research on the pricing for Code/400.  Ouch!  That
> > pricing!  $1,150/user, or $287,500 for a block of 250 users.
> > Gee, I wonder how many block sales they make?  Especially
> > since there is no discount.  Anyone on this list purchased a
> > block or more?  Granted they threw in VARPG.  But I'll open a
> > separate thread on this later.  And probably on Midrange-L.
> > Okay, I've got 11-12 people who use SEU on a regular basis.
> > Some of whom probably won't take to the tool.  One we have
> > to beat with a stick to keep away from VARPG - more on that
> > later.  I was going to multiply this out, but that is a question
> > for the budget people.  The old capital expenditure versus
> > perceived hidden cost of productivity argument.  I was going
> > to figure out the cost of this versus the other AD tools, but
> > that is irrelevant since it requires that you purchase those
> > tools anyways.  The question boils down to will it pay for
> > itself in increased productivity?  That I'll have to try it
> > out and see for ourselves.
> >
> > What grinds my gourd is this:  If GUI tools are supposed to
> > be oh so much more productive, and you can bang out applications
> > faster than a goose poops grass, why are they dang expensive?
> > Aren't they built with GUI tools that are oh so productive that
> > can also bang out applications faster than a goose poops grass?
> > Or is it easier to develop green screen applications and tools?
> >
> > Any contractors going out to customer sites actually write quotes
> > like the following?
> > Cost to do project A with Code/400 $x
> > without Code/400 $x + y%
> >
> > However, there was an interesting situation brought up at the
> > conference.
> > Went something like this.  Seems there was a company that bought
> > two copies of Code/400.  They wanted to compare productivity.
> > They forced rotation.  For a certain block of days you HAD to use
> > the Code/400 workstations, then it was the other peoples turn.
> > Shortly people started getting up at 4am to get into work early
> > so they use SEU before they had to use Code/400, if they were on
> > Code/400 that block.  After awhile it changed.  People started
> > getting up at 4am to use Code/400 before they got kicked off by
> > the people who were on Code/400 that week.
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