RE: Code/400 -- RPG400-L

Let's see.  If I get paid $5/hr to clear a sidewalk of snow 
and I can do it in four hours with a shovel I'll make $15.  
$20 - $5 cost of shovel.  Or I can do it in 15 minutes with 
a snow blower.  $1.25 - $500 = ($498.75).  Of course if you 
disregard the intangibles of a chiropractor.  But I've had 
consultants use this logic.  Write their own EDI instead of 
buy a package.  When you ask them for an interface from EDI 
to canned ERP software.

What is the cost/user of SEU versus the cost/user of Code/400?  
Disregarding that you have to purchase the set that SEU uses 
in order to use Code/400.  Was this because SEU cost that much 
less to develop, or, because of GUI price gouging?  I am not 
even comparing this to mass market Windows tools.  Compare 
this to another example.  I can buy a gizmo to convert one 
twinax port to 7 twisted pair cheap.  If I buy the exact same 
thing but in a rack mounted version I'll pay $1000 more.  
Metal ain't that expensive.  It is the belief that if you use 
rack mounted equipment then you must be a big iron shop and 
used to paying exorbitant prices.  I can give more similar 
examples.







cozzi@rpgiv.com on 07/01/99 03:12:25 PM
Please respond to RPG400-L@midrange.com@Internet
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Subject:        RE: Code/400



On the cost of the product issue, there are millions of variables, but
fundamentally, the AS/400 market with 1 percent of the market of say,
Windows would require a higher price for exactly the same tool used under
Windows. Hence OS/400 is thousands of dollars, whereas Windows 98 is $89.

If you can sell a product to 20 to 80 million potential customers you can
spread the cost out for the market share you expect to sell. If you can only
sell to 10,000 customers, then you have to price for that.

At 10,000 is probably a high figure in the AS/400 world. Few, if any
software vendors have 10,000 customers. Some have more, but most have few
than 2,000 or so. The funny thing is, that since we all also use PCs, a lot
of AS/400 programmers expect development tools for the AS/400 to be the same
price as development tools for the PC. In fact, many of them expect those
tools to cost less.

I PC developer will gladly spend $500+ per year on themselves--regardless of
what the company spends on the in addition to that $500. AS/400 programmers
won't spend a dime of their own money on their own tools, and (I believe)
they don't have the budget authority or input to get tools put into next
years budget.  "Why buy a new TV, when they're giving away free vacuum tube
sets at work?"



Bob Cozzi

http://www.RPGIV.com




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rpg400-l@midrange.com [mailto:owner-rpg400-l@midrange.com]On
> Behalf Of Rob Berendt
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 11:38 AM
> To: RPG400-L@midrange.com
> Subject: RE: Code/400
>
>
> I did some research on the pricing for Code/400.  Ouch!  That
> pricing!  $1,150/user, or $287,500 for a block of 250 users.
> Gee, I wonder how many block sales they make?  Especially
> since there is no discount.  Anyone on this list purchased a
> block or more?  Granted they threw in VARPG.  But I'll open a
> separate thread on this later.  And probably on Midrange-L.
> Okay, I've got 11-12 people who use SEU on a regular basis.
> Some of whom probably won't take to the tool.  One we have
> to beat with a stick to keep away from VARPG - more on that
> later.  I was going to multiply this out, but that is a question
> for the budget people.  The old capital expenditure versus
> perceived hidden cost of productivity argument.  I was going
> to figure out the cost of this versus the other AD tools, but
> that is irrelevant since it requires that you purchase those
> tools anyways.  The question boils down to will it pay for
> itself in increased productivity?  That I'll have to try it
> out and see for ourselves.
>
> What grinds my gourd is this:  If GUI tools are supposed to
> be oh so much more productive, and you can bang out applications
> faster than a goose poops grass, why are they dang expensive?
> Aren't they built with GUI tools that are oh so productive that
> can also bang out applications faster than a goose poops grass?
> Or is it easier to develop green screen applications and tools?
>
> Any contractors going out to customer sites actually write quotes
> like the following?
> Cost to do project A  with Code/400           $x
>                               without Code/400                $x + y%
>
> However, there was an interesting situation brought up at the
> conference.
> Went something like this.  Seems there was a company that bought
> two copies of Code/400.  They wanted to compare productivity.
> They forced rotation.  For a certain block of days you HAD to use
> the Code/400 workstations, then it was the other peoples turn.
> Shortly people started getting up at 4am to get into work early
> so they use SEU before they had to use Code/400, if they were on
> Code/400 that block.  After awhile it changed.  People started
> getting up at 4am to use Code/400 before they got kicked off by
> the people who were on Code/400 that week.
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