Re: What bugs you about KLISTs in RPG IV?

[boldt@xxxxxxxxxx]

Jon Wrote:
> >> You're terrific Hans!  Boy I wish we had this kind of response when the
>early decisions were being made on RPG IV design.
>
>I agree that Hans is terrific, but boy you sure know how to hurt a guy!
>(actually it may be "guys" since Hans and I were on the same team - but he's a
>big boy and can speak for himself).

OK, I will speak for myself!  I certainly take no offense by that
statement.  We're certainly responsible ourselves for some questionable
design decisions - we can't always blame it on "customer request".

>
>If we'd had many more people involved in the design you'd still be waiting for
>it!! Don't forget that the fact that you might disagree with a particular
design
>point doesn't mean that you were in a majority position.

To some extent, I would agree.  However, if we had called on a larger
group of customers, there might have been a greater sense of consensus
on certain issues.  With a larger sample size, you have greater
certainty.  With a (relatively) small group, positions are based more
on opinion.  Since it's harder to defend such positions, advocates can
easily become polarized, which makes consensus difficult.

>
>
>I'm not going to start the whole "free-form" debate again (I have to assume
that
>that's what you mean because there was a LOT of consultation about the whole
RPG
>IV design and the only major disagreement was over fixed/free)

If I recall, the design was based on input from about a dozen or so
people, some of whom were very polarized over the fixed/free issue.
Later, we presented the design to users at user group meetings, but
I'm not sure I would call that "consultation".

Now that we have (practically) universal internet access, we can hear
opinions from many more people, and from the people who are directly
affected by our decisions.  We've tried various ways to collect feedback,
but I don't think anything works as well as the internet!

>but I suspect
>that Hans would agree with me when I say that we'd almost certainly make
>_exactly_ the same decision again. It's all a matter of timing. It was the
right
>thing to do at the time.

On the other hand, "hindsight is 20/20".  If we knew then what we know
now, I'm sure we would have done at least a few things differently.
Things have changed a lot since those days.  In my opinion, RPG
programming has changed more between ILE RPG V3R1 and V4R4, than between
OPM RPG and ILE.

>
>PS. I said at the time that I believed that Free-form would come one day - with
>luck that prediction (albeit about two years later than I predicted) will come
>true thanks to Hans and the rest of the RPG team.

Also, thanks to the great support of the members of this mailing list!
Based on some early feedback from a very small group, I had serious
doubts about the survival of the "CF-Spec".  But the overwhelmingly
positive response from people here has ensured the place of the CF-Spec
in our product plans.

Cheers!  Hans

Hans Boldt, ILE RPG Development, IBM Toronto Lab, boldt@ca.ibm.com


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* This is the RPG/400 Discussion Mailing List!  To submit a new         *
* message, send your mail to "RPG400-L@midrange.com".  To unsubscribe   *
* from this list send email to MAJORDOMO@midrange.com and specify       *
* 'unsubscribe RPG400-L' in the body of your message.  Questions should *
* be directed to the list owner / operator: david@midrange.com          *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *