Re: Idle curiosity about EGL Cafe ...

David Gibbs wrote:

If I had the time and resources, I would *LOVE* to write a list
processor the i. I would write the front end and receiver & sender in
java, and the actual list processing in RPG. I've envisioned how it
would work for many years.

I'm sure the EGL team would love to do a lot of things too. It's not like IBM has dozens of programmers sitting and twiddling their thumbs. Chris had to convince people that his time was well spent on the scheduler. Someone would have to make a business case to IBM that writing EGL Cafe in EGL would make money.

It's possible, certainly. I can tell you that our scheduler is getting worldwide notice:

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080613/0406506.html

Look about halfway down, you'll see comments about the scheduler. Note the reference to "and use inventive technology that suggests which talks the user should attend next based on preferences" - that's actually the most complex business logic. I wrote a routine in RPG that identifies sessions to attend based on tag weights.

Now, if that sort of business logic were included in a forum, and highlighted in the "about pages" for the forum, you might change my mind. Here's the problem, though. My guess is that EGL Cafe wouldn't require an i. For those worried about EGL somehow threatening RPG development, a forum might be the *worst* concept, because my guess is it would be implemented in Java and Javascript with an SQL interface to something like a MySQL back end.

And that's not going to help the i platform.

Forums are commodity software, nothing is to be learned by
re-inventing that particular wheel.

Sure there is ... a better way to implement it. Wheels are made to be
re-invented. This is called PROGRESS. If wheels hadn't been
re-invented, then my Escape Hybrid would be running granite tires. :)

This is a tough argument. Progress for the sake of progress. To be honest, the only way I'd see this making sense is if IBM were planning to *market* the EGL Cafe software. Then they'd be able to create a revenue stream that would justify the money spent developing the product.

Honestly, I see your point: writing a forum in EGL would be a great way to showcase EGL. But how much investment would it take to do correctly? And how much revenue would it really generate? If EGL Cafe was written in EGL, would that convince MKS to use EGL for its web development?

If you say yes, then perhaps there's a stronger argument to be made. Hey, I'm wrong sometimes <grin>.

Because to me, that's the real question: how many people on this list would try to sell their company on EGL if it was used to develop forums? On the other hand, how many would try to sell their company on EGL if it were used to develop a storefront? Or perhaps a search and ordering system for PTFs? Or a system configurator?

What application developed in EGL would make it most likely that you would try to convince your company to use it?

That happens no matter what. Hasn't stopped people from building better
wheels. Sure didn't stop Jive software from developing their forum system.

But see, Jive SELLS forum software. Do you think it's in IBM's best interests to get into the forum software market? What IBM *should* do is partner with an ISV to use EGL to develop a forum. That would make the most sense.

Well, I haven't had a chance to look at the scheduling software you
wrote ... but I would venture to say that most forum systems have a LOT
more 'business' logic in them.

Lesse ...

1. Authentication
2. Storage
3. Reply processing
4. Thread management
5. Notification
6. Rendering

None of these are trivial ... all of them related to the business of
managing a forum. Forums are becoming more and more important to
businesses.

And again, we'll have to disagree. I see very little up there that needs custom business logic. Authentication is a commodity service. The database requirements are very simplistic. And while thread management isn't exactly trivial, it doesn't hold a candle to requirements processing or costing or pricing ... or all the stuff we use a business machine for. Our scheduler did online realtime chats, commenting, voting, tagging, and authentication via email. Not to mention rendering. That's the framework for just about everything above.

Again, it's an opinion, but in my opinion a forum is very lightweight when it comes to business rules. I mean, what would you need an i there for? If you worry about EGL snuffing out RPG, I'd opine that a forum application would actually show how well EGL: does *without* a System i.

That's because the biggest thing in forum software is the UI, and that's where we'll see more of in the Rich Web Services part of the product. THAT piece of EGL - the rich UI - is what you could use to write a forum, but that's still in technology preview stage. Get back to me later in the year on that.

But in the meantime, what you should be showing off is a collaborative effort between the i and EGL - something that integrates enterprise-level business logic and a high-tech user interface. To me, a forum just doesn't do that.

In my opinion, a forum doesn't need an i and it certainly doesn't showcase the business logic capabilities of the box. But that's my opinion.

Joe