Re: Possible list mining??? SPAMCOP results

On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 10:43:22AM -0500, Brad Jensen wrote:
> Actually, I've been through the process, with a person who was on
> an opt-in list, where every message gives the user the ability to
> terminate. They asked to be on the list in the first place, then
> didn't bother to take themselves off, then complained to spamcop.

Do you use a closed-loop opt-in process? If not, then you're vulnerable to a
forged subscription: someone can subscribe someone else to your mailings,
and that someone else may (rightly, IMAO) complain of being spammed.

The right way to do subscriptions is to receive a subscription request, then
respond to it with a note that says "Someone, maybe not you, subscribed you
to this newsletter. If you want to subscribe, reply to this email; if not,
do nothing and you won't ever hear from me again." and includes a random
token that must be included in the reply to validate the subscription. Don't
include any promotional material, or anything else, in the confirmation
email.

Including an opt-out mechanism is meaningless unless the list is truly
opt-in in the first place. If you don't do closed-loop confirmation of
opting in, it's not truly opt-in. If you purchase addresses from somewhere
else, unless each and everyone on that list of addresses was notified that
their address could be sold for mailings such as yours and agreed to that in
advance, it's not opt-in; even then, many people consider that spam and will
report it.

"Opt-in" is a term that's been abused so much by spammers that it's losing
its meaning.

> So for every user that is an idiot, I have to go through a
> justification process with a self-appointed vigilante. Spamcop is
> charging the money - they are the ones who should be
> investigating to see if it is a opt-in (or a virus, these days!).

They're not self-appointed. They're appointed by the recipient of the email,
by the act of a complaint being sent through their system.

> They should be called Scamcop.

They're a valuable service used by thousands of Internet users, and should
be used by many more.

Spam is the scourge of the Internet, and the biggest threat to its long-term
viability. More than a few folks have abandoned email completely because
they don't have the time to deal with spam. Services such as Spamcop are the
only thing standing between my mailbox and wholesale deluge by spammers to
the point of being useless.