× The internal search function is temporarily non-functional. The current search engine is no longer viable and we are researching alternatives.
As a stop gap measure, we are using Google's custom search engine service.
If you know of an easy to use, open source, search engine ... please contact support@midrange.com.


The OP also stated that a screen scraper could be used during transition, so those solutions apparently COULD be what they need.

My questions to Jerry are:
1) What IS your budget?
2) What are your skills or skill level?
3) What is your long term goal?
4) How many screens are you talking about?

I've worked with both LookSoftware (Pre-Presto) and with ProfoundLogic (Genie and Atrium) and find them worthy products. But I didn't pay for them.

A "screen scraper" from any organization may be a temporary solution, but if that's all it is, then it might be money wasted in the long term unless you plan on utilizing the products that go along with it. For that point, I'm talking about LookSoftware and ProfoundLogic. I'm not too familiar with the others.

Are you planning in the long term to rewrite the screens and programs in another choice of product and get out of the RPG world? (I would consider that a bad choice, but I'm partial to the IBM i / RPG world.)

There is much that you are probably considering as part of your "modernization" that is other than just a GUI interface, and what may be a simple question such as you posed, has a LOT of other factors to consider which may spread out the high cost of whatever product you decide on. The product you choose could take considerable time and money off of the conversion by being able to do so much more than "screen scrape". Products like Looksoftware and ProfoundLogic, while they may be out of your price range for a "screenscraper", may not be for the other things they can offer as savings benefactors.

But that may also depend on the skill level of your shop.

I could say more, but I'm curious as to how much more that you know that you haven't told us.


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Jon Paris
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 1:29 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Modernization Packages

The OP noted that they were not looking for "just a screen scraper" which - unless I've missed something - is what the listed solutions are. Presto supposedly offers some Open Access enabled extension but that may be just a way of introducing NewLook.

ProfoundUI, NewLook, Asna Wings, and Icebreak are the four options I know of.

CNX's Valence and Nitro App builder are nice tools that facilitate building modern interfaces while staying with RPG. Great support and reasonable pricing - good free demo too. I use Nitro for ad-hoc apps that I need in a hurry.

These days the focus is on API enabling existing code and building new front ends using node, python or php. There are a number of tools in that area including Profound, Rocket, Midrange Dynamics and Eradani to name a few.

Jon P.

On May 26, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Bobby Adams <bobby_adams@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Jerry,

We just went through a process of trialing three solutions. A colleague did most of the work and I am enclosing his response below because he isn't on this list.



We did a trial of Genie by Profound Logic, aXes by Lansa, and Presto
by Fresche Solutions. (We ultimately went with Presto.)

Genie is normally sold as part of the very expensive Profound UI, but they will give you a quote for Genie in standalone if you ask. Genie and aXes were comparable in price, while Presto is potentially cheaper depending on the number of seats you want (only Presto is seat-based; the other two are priced by your IBM i processor); also ask Fresche about adding on individual seats if you're somewhere between the seat counts they offer. Also, you'll find Presto's annual maintenance is cheaper because they price it off a fraction of the initial purchase not counting the training package, whereas the other two base their maintenance fees on a percentage of the entire purchase (including training).

In terms of features and ease of use, Genie was the simplest and most straightforward, but I felt it was a bit too simple, and its out-of-the-box page transformations were the least impressive of the three. But it's probably the easiest to learn, and you could still do a lot in it by adding in custom CSS and JavaScript. You may also find that when Profound Logic gives you a demo of Genie, they may mention downsides of Genie to try to push you toward Profound UI, so take that as you will.

aXes seemed okay overall, but I didn't love some aspects of the editor (your mileage may vary). Their sales and support people seemed plenty helpful, but their tutorials could use some work. I had difficulty trying to get a FileMaker Pro web viewer to make use of aXes's JavaScript functions, but that probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker for most customers, and there was a workaround if I felt like putting the development time in. I also thought aXes put a bit too much emphasis on global substitutions (AutoGUI), but overall it seems like a competent product that I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying. Oh, they also had a nice spool file manager.

Presto was really the winner for us when it came to the balance of advanced features and ease of use. The out-of-the-box transformations are pleasant without any customization on your part, but you can also use their drag-and-drop Visual Editor (Windows only) for making plenty of transformations, or you can add custom JavaScript to control even more complex transformations (not necessary in many cases, but nice that it's there). And their support team has been outstanding in terms of responsiveness and helpfulness regarding troubleshooting or just brainstorming ways to do something new you're trying to implement.

The biggest downside to Presto in my opinion is their documentation, which comes in the form of a nearly 600-page PDF (though they seemed interested in my critiques/suggestions regarding the documentation). The PDF has a lot of content (and some fluff), and it covers a lot of what I was interested in learning regarding custom JavaScript add-ons, but there are some functions that you'd only learn about digging through Knowledge Base articles (they'll give you a https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__MyFrescheSolutions.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=g4likFB9YdUjuQD6yPKwC_psKwPwaiKOqpsRs4RoMUo&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__MyFrescheSolutions.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=g4likFB9YdUjuQD6yPKwC_psKwPwaiKOqpsRs4RoMUo&e=> account to access these during your trial), or from speaking with support. (You could also try your hand at dissecting presto.js, which comes minified but not obfuscated.) But because support is so helpful, if you tell them something you're trying to do and it involves a function you don't know about, you will definitely know all about it by the time you're done with them.

A few other points of comparison: Genie and aXes use web-based editors, while Presto's editor is a Windows-only program. Also, in both Genie and aXes, you can define separate customization projects ("skins" or "themes") and switch between them to your liking. In Presto, you'd need two different Presto installs with their own libraries and IFS folders, which makes it seem kind of cumbersome to promote between a development and production environment (we haven't tried to set this up yet). I don't love that, but we went with Presto because of its many other benefits.

Overall, I'd say try a trial of aXes and Presto and see if either one clicks with you better, and make sure to ask some questions of their support teams to see what kinds of responses you get. If you have time for a third trial or if the other two seem way too complicated, then try Genie.

There's also a much, much cheaper option called
I2p7A&s=iKGnB1aFYWdAHh-2Q8HUrH4fIi2XC3dgISzlSBZ3G28&e=>, but you're
going to be doing pretty much everything yourself in JavaScript with
that option. Here's a link to their API docs:

On 5/24/2022 14:08, (WalzCraft) Jerry Forss wrote:
Hi All,

I am looking for recommendations on packages we can use to modernize from Green Screen to GUI.
I am not looking for just a screen scraper although it could be used during the conversion.

We got a price from Profound and it is WAY too expensive for a 1-2 developer shop.
I know it is wonderful product but there is no way I am even going to present it to the owner, just not cost effective for 1-2 developers.

Looking for what are all the options and why you like them.
Want as little current RPG code changes as possible but will do what is needed to move forward.

Vendor opinions are welcome.

Subject to Change Notice:

WalzCraft reserves the right to improve designs, and to change specifications without notice.

Confidentiality Notice:

This message and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information that is protected by law. The information
contained herein is transmitted for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s) and should "only" pertain to "WalzCraft" company
matters. If you are not the intended recipient or designated agent of
the recipient of such information, you are hereby notified that any
use, dissemination, copying or retention of this email or the
information contained herein is strictly prohibited and may subject
you to penalties under federal and/or state law. If you received this
email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently
delete this email. Thank You

WalzCraft PO Box 1748 La Crosse, WI, 54602-1748
s=B30pWjG__Z6FAh2Ii5lYb3RmhE-FfgHzeAhBrp6No2Q&e=> Phone:
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To
subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
o2BHylr-jgiBwo&e= or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support
A&s=2t7Gmgzo9vLbXIzaBJU85OZx-UMFIQkN7uz4gg9WUWs&e= by shopping at
s=dQttx873BSGzxNY1WhUckdhczm0XQvoKTznBiYMqZfc&e= with our affiliate

This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.midrange.com_mailman_listinfo_midrange-2Dl&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=CR9dyE_W_RKycE4LpcUJ-Knpk6Aexo2BHylr-jgiBwo&e=
or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.midrange.com_midrange-2Dl&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=JLuYHoYLzzYOND0kOfzfjzbJjfcO8UPchFHaxq_yYQI&e=.

Please contact support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx for any subscription related questions.

Help support https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__midrange.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=2t7Gmgzo9vLbXIzaBJU85OZx-UMFIQkN7uz4gg9WUWs&e= by shopping at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__amazon.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=dQttx873BSGzxNY1WhUckdhczm0XQvoKTznBiYMqZfc&e= with our affiliate link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__amazon.midrange.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=LifWsbmXTz4aXbMMEwOi1aJ3sWD5nsP_QI4reJ8MbDM&m=Ch-dKcFYV6QSqn6CBO4ixM4SR74L_HweWBrPYvI2p7A&s=sT8PDYD2fEBTfBT9Eq8bwHkfXqHU6niSDHEbknyNNeI&e=
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you have received this transmission, but are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact NALC Health Benefit Plan at 703-729-4677 and delete and destroy the original message and all copies.

As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

This thread ...


Follow On AppleNews
Return to Archive home page | Return to MIDRANGE.COM home page

This mailing list archive is Copyright 1997-2023 by midrange.com and David Gibbs as a compilation work. Use of the archive is restricted to research of a business or technical nature. Any other uses are prohibited. Full details are available on our policy page. If you have questions about this, please contact [javascript protected email address].

Operating expenses for this site are earned using the Amazon Associate program and Google Adsense.