RE: The IBM iSeries word from FOSE... -- MIDRANGE-L

Joe Pluta <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote on 04/08/2005 02:08:52 PM:

> > From: Mike.Crump@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > 1.)  I haven't seen any recently quantified and current number
> comparing
> > the two....We track our iSeries systems and do well 99.97 or better.
> And
> > this is with a complex and mixed environment.  But I'd feel better
> being
> > able to point to someone's black and white number regarding WINTEL.
>
> And who are you going to trust regarding those numbers?  Especially
> since the issue is so dependent on the type of load, as you mentioned.

Very true.  I just hate to say that without being able to back it up.
Either with personal experience or with somebody's data.  Without those we
are in the world of opinions....


>
> > 2.)  In a lot of customer environments they probably have good up
> times.
> > Like ours for example, we run a fair number of WINTEL servers (even 10
> > inboard).  Now, of course, each system is effectively running one
> > application only and in some cases these systems are only providing
> > rudimentary services and are not full application systems.  But we
> have
> > relatively few problems with our systems with regards to downtime.
>
> This cracks me up... "Sure, 15 dedicated servers give us as much uptime
> as the iSeries."  Well, my guess is the cost of 15 servers could also
> get you a nice iSeries.

Agreed, but it just goes to a certain attitude.  'Hey we do not have a
downtime problem with our PC servers.'  It's an extremely shortsighted
attitude but it's out there.


>
> > 3.)  While it is a true cost of ownership item a lot of people tend to
> > say,
> > hey if it's not cash I don't treat it the same.  Not that I'd agree
> with
> > it...but lately I've even been seeing that kind of mentality creep
> into
> > our
> > environment.  Not cash going out, the concern level is less.
>
> That's an education issue: how many servers do you have?  How many
> people?  How many hours do they spend updating those machines?  TCO is
> definitely money going out.  But if your management don't understand
> that, it's time to find a new job, because that company is tanking SOON.
>

You aren't telling me anything I don't already know.... :-)


> > 4.)  And last but not least, I am fully convinced that a lot of WINTEL
> > people are completely comfortable with living with downtime and
> security
> > issues.  I'm not saying it's right but I think there are a lot of
> people
> > who accept mediocrity.   Our WINTEL based portal and some of our plant
> > floor systems rely on SQL server.  Two years ago we had to shut them
> all
> > down due to SQL Server virus problems.  24 hours for some while
> systems
> > were patched.  Move forward 12 months later we have our CFO saying
> that
> > our
> > SAP platform has to be SQL Server......the same one that was shutdown
> for
> > 24 hours......If that had been one of my systems shut down for 24
> hours
> > I'd
> > be hearing that outage as a reason to replace the system for at least
> the
> > next five years...........
>
> This is why I hate Bill Gates.  His philosophy of delivering cheap crap
> until there is no competition has single-handedly reduced the state of
> software development and lowered consumer expectations to rock bottom.

Well, you can hate him but in some ways you have to admire it.  It works.
Put it out, make it easy to start, cheap to start, and wait a few years
before fixing the stuff and making it robust.  M$ has been doing it for
years and getting away with it.  Personally, I blame the end consumers for
putting up with it.  And I don't like MS either.

I still believe in the 3 S's of the iSeries - Security, Scalability, and
Stability.  My revelation is that lately our reputation as the most
expensive machine is not accurate.  And I think it has hurt the system just
as much as any other misconception.

iSeriesNetwork just ran an article and there was the following quote from
an analyst (Jeff Hewitt) at Gartner:

Mr. Hewitt was quoted as saying "Hewitt hasn't heard a one-minute "elevator
speech" that would convince him that the iSeries is the way to go â nor
does he believe he's likely to hear one."

Here is my email that most likely will never get a reply:

Here is one.....

1.) SAP feasibility study for a mid-size manufacturer.
2.) Major manufacturing and financial modules implemented.
3.) Comparison between WINTEL/SQL Server and iSeries configuration.
4.) 20 Wintel server configuration compared to 2 iSeries i5 servers.
5.)  Hardware acquisition costs showed the iSeries to be 11% more
expensive.
6.)  Hardware acquisition, software acquisition, hardware maintenance, and
software maintenance showed the iSeries to be 4% less expensive per year
given a 3 year depreciation schedule.
7.)  Technical personnel (Basis, systems administration, data base
administration) requirements determined a need for 3-4 iSeries support
personnel vs 8-12 support personnel for the WINTEL SQL server environment.
Unix/Oracle solution required 12-14 personnel.  Personnel requirements
determined by SAP and best practices for the industry.
8.)  Annual savings estimated for running SAP on iSeries vs. WINTEL/SQL
Server estimated to be $500,000 to $800,000 annually.  Unix solution was
even more expensive.
9.)  Personnel costs were for an area (central Indiana) with a cost of
living below the national average.

Same product, slightly more stable, slightly more secure.  ANNUAL SAVINGS
OF $500,000 to $800,000.

That would be my one minute elevator speech.

Now Joe, I don't disagree with your viewpoints at all.  I just happen to
think that in certain circumstances the cost differential is to large to
not lead with.  If a rational analysis is done (key word if, oh wait and
also rational) the iSeries will come out ahead a lot of the time.  So
perhaps I should have said something more in line with 'What about
downtime? And by the way, I bet it isn't more expensive'..............

And as a result of some of these discussions I do have an updated
resume......