Re: Jobs (or the lack of....) -- MIDRANGE-L

I care.

As for being racist, that's an easy label to slap on you if you've offended
their Pollyanna view of the world. When all is said and done, the only thing
that matters is what you've done with the talents God has given you. Case in
point:
My Dad's nickname is Redneck Robert. He made his living in the construction
business, having started as a grease monkey and working his way up into
management. When I started college in the fall of 1967, I was sort of a
liberal hippie type who thought the Humphrey Democrats were going to save
the world. I had the opinion that the only guys more right wing than my Dad
were Barry Goldwater and Spiro Agnew.

The summer of 1968 was a real eye-opener for me. My Dad arranged for me to
get a job with the company he worked for. Instead of some wimpy college boy
job my classmates were getting, he sent me 1,000 miles from home to shovel
concrete for the summer. That's when I started to learn things about my Dad
that he had never told us kids.

Things like the time he got into a fist fight with Jimmy Hoffa in 1955 over
Hoffa's refusal to let my Dad employ black truck drivers on the paving job
at the Ford proving grounds in Romeo, Michigan(Hoffa lost both fights).

Things like the program that my Dad had started in Minneapolis to provide
education, food and clothing for kids from the same ghetto neighborhood he
grew up in (a ghetto is a ghetto, no matter what your color). When he would
visit the company's job sites, he would pass the hat amongst the guys on the
job to help fund the program. He still contributes to that fund today(so do
I). I have learned over the years that he and some of his associates have
paid for the private school education of more than 30 kids from that
program. His "rat pack" places IBM laptops in schools in order to help kids
learn skills that will be useful in business later on.

One of the guys he grew up with was an Ojibwa Sioux Indian. That fellow
became the first non-white business agent of the cement mason's union after
my Dad (management, mind you) made a speech on his friend's behalf at a
national union meeting. This was the guy who gave my Dad the nickname
"Redneck" as a joke.

Things like the time my Dad publicly told the aforementioned Vice President
Agnew to take a flying f--- when Agnew "suggested" that a large campaign
contribution would guarantee a substantial amount of highway construction
contracts in the state of Maryland. This was part of a subtle effort to
minimize the amount of work being awarded to minority firms.

And on and on. I only hope that I am half as color blind as my Dad. I
personally don't care if somebody has purple skin and wears a tutu as long
as they give 40 hours of work for 40 hours pay, and doesn't spend all their
time complaining about their lot in life.

Proudly signed,
"Son of Redneck"

Paul Nelson
Braxton-Reed, Inc.
630-327-8665 Cell
708-923-7354 Home
pnelson@braxton-reed.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Landess" <steve_landess@hotmail.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)


> Paul -
>
> I greatly appreciate your opinions that appear to support my stance on
> offshore outsourcing.  Unfortunately, most people don't care any
more...They
> will, when they get a  pink slip notifying them that their job is going
away
> to an offshore outsourcing facility.
>
> When I posted my original message on midrange-jobs regarding my view on
> outsourcing, one member accused me of being racist.  I had several of my
> peers review the message before I sent it.  They said it was STRONG (read
> NOT necessarily politically correct), but nobody mentioned racist.  I
don't
> consider my views on this matter racist...this is a matter of survival,
and
> I'm trying to do what I have to do to survive in the current economic
chaos.
> All I am trying to do is raise awareness of what is going on out there.
> It's a dog-eat-dog world.
>
> Don't think for a minute that this can't happen to every one of us.
>
> Look at what happened to the auto and steel industries in the 70's, the
> semiconductor industry in the 80's, the electronics business in the 90's.
> Practically NOBODY manufactures anything here anymore.
>
> I don't want to see this happen to our programmer work force.  We have to
> stand together to fight this trend.
>
> Even major companies are now moving their headquarters OFFSHORE to escape
> U.S. taxes.  Where is there any social responsibility or accountability
for
> these actions?  I know that the stockholders' value rules supreme, BUT I
> heard of a case where the stockholders voted NOT to move the headquarters
> offshore (I believe it was Black & Decker Co.).
>
> JMHO
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Nelson" <p_nelson-br@pop.inil.com>
> To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)
>
>
> I would've if I could've.
>
> As for cars, 2 Fords & 3 GM's the oldest being an 83 Cadillac Eldorado
that
> I'm restoring for my beautiful wife.
>
> David would cut us off if I got started on my views as to the lack of the
> knowledge of history exhibited by today's 18-34 year old market. You need
> only look at Jay Leno's history and geography quizzes that he gives to
> college students.
>
> Suffice it to say that I took my 17 year old son to see the movie "Pearl
> Harbor" last year, shortly after we had watched "Band of Brothers" on HBO
> (btw, HBO Video is a 400 shop). When the attack scene was over, I asked
him
> if he had any questions as to why the Nelson family avoids purchasing
> foreign products. His response: "Not anymore".
>
> I am proud to say that this young man is going through the process of
trying
> to get into the United States Naval Academy, with the goal of becoming a
> Marine officer. Semper Fi.
>
> Paul Nelson
> Braxton-Reed, Inc.
> 630-327-8665 Cell
> 708-923-7354 Home
> pnelson@braxton-reed.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Booth Martin" <Booth@MartinVT.com>
> To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)
>
>
> > --
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >
> > Then why wouldn't you buy my cast iron Paul? My wholesale finished price
> was
> > only 10 times the cost for the same or better quality from off-shore.
As
> a
> > patriotic citizen why wouldn't you pay me $100 for a $10 item?  By the
> way,
> > what kind of a car do you drive?
> >
> > I am not attacking you Paul, I am only trying to make the point that
> > isolationist trade policy doesn't work, mostly because consumers demands
> > overwhelm government regulation.
> >
> > What policies & practices does India's government impose that you'd
> consider
> > as hampering or restricting their workers?  I am not aware of any, in
fact
> I
> > wish there were more.  I wish India had OSHA. I wish India had emissions
> > controls.  I wish India had minimum wages and mandatory overtime pay
> rates.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Booth Martin   http://www.MartinVT.com
> > Booth@MartinVT.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:56:46 AM
> > To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)
> >
> > I'm just saying that we need to take care of our own people before
sending
> > our cash elsewhere.
> > We're not stepping on anybody's necks. Their governments are.
> >
> > Paul Nelson
> > Braxton-Reed, Inc.
> > 630-327-8665 Cell
> > 708-923-7354 Home
> > pnelson@braxton-reed.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Booth Martin" <Booth@MartinVT.com>
> > To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 9:39 AM
> > Subject: RE: Jobs (or the lack of....)
> >
> >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > >
> > > Before I started programming as a career I owned a cast iron foundry.
> > I've
> > > been through this battle and still have the emotional and financial
> scars.
> > > At the end, I could buy finished cast iron delivered to my doorstep
from
> > > India for less than the cost of my raw pig iron. We blamed unions, we
> > > blamed energy costs, we blamed environmental costs, we blamed fringe
> > > benefits. In short we spent a lot of energy blaming the world. It
didn't
> > > make a difference. We still closed and put close to 50 unskilled
> American
> > > families out of work.
> > >
> > > About quality: Don't sing that tune; find some other tune. Programmers
> > > learn fast.
> > >
> > > In the end for my own emotional well-being I had to accept the idea
that
> I
> > > am a citizen of the World. Raising the standard of living for
> > impoverished
> > > people can't be considered a bad thing.
> > >
> > > How can we compete at our high earnings? I haven't an answer, but I'm
> > sure
> > > we can't ever win by stepping on the necks of impoverished people
> fighting
> > > to feed their own children.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > Booth Martin http://www.MartinVT.com
> > > Booth@MartinVT.com
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > -------Original Message-------
> > >
> > > From: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:14:55 AM
> > > To: 'midrange-l@midrange.com'; midrange-jobs@midrange.com
> > > Subject: RE: Jobs (or the lack of....)
> > >
> > > Mr. Nelson states :
> > > "We need to turn around the argument that the offshore can do the
> > > work for less money to one
> > > where the work is done with higher quality in less time. "
> > >
> > >
> > > The answer to that statement is very simple, and it has everything
> > > to do with cost. When we go to Wal-Mart to buy a shirt, it's made
> > somewhere
> > > other than the U.S.A., but we don't care because it's inexpensive. The
> > > shirt's quality, while usually less than desirable, is acceptable
> because
> > of
> > > the price of the shirt. Translated into software, just look at
> > > Windows...we can't stand the fact that we have to reboot 2 times a
week,
> > but
> > > the $110.00 price tag for the OS offsets our frustration.
> > >
> > > Hence, a U.S. company has a strong financial incentive to use
> > > offshore labor because while the quality may be lacking (and this is
> > > debatable as time goes by), the price for that labor is so damn cheap,
> > they
> > > don't care.
> > >
> > > Finally, outsourcing turns labor into a capitalized cost instead of
> > > a long-term commitment involving labor disputes, last productivity due
> to
> > > illness, insurance, retirement issues, and so forth.
> > >
> > > So, what's the solution? I don't know, but I do know that preaching
> > > quality ain't gonn'a save our jobs, so let's explore other avenues
too.
> > >
> > >
> > > Just my .02 worth. :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ray Shahan
> > >
> > > "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans", John
Lennon
> > > --
> > > [ Content of type image/gif deleted ]
> > > --
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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