Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)

Paul -

I greatly appreciate your opinions that appear to support my stance on
offshore outsourcing.  Unfortunately, most people don't care any more...They
will, when they get a  pink slip notifying them that their job is going away
to an offshore outsourcing facility.

When I posted my original message on midrange-jobs regarding my view on
outsourcing, one member accused me of being racist.  I had several of my
peers review the message before I sent it.  They said it was STRONG (read
NOT necessarily politically correct), but nobody mentioned racist.  I don't
consider my views on this matter racist...this is a matter of survival, and
I'm trying to do what I have to do to survive in the current economic chaos.
All I am trying to do is raise awareness of what is going on out there.
It's a dog-eat-dog world.

Don't think for a minute that this can't happen to every one of us.

Look at what happened to the auto and steel industries in the 70's, the
semiconductor industry in the 80's, the electronics business in the 90's.
Practically NOBODY manufactures anything here anymore.

I don't want to see this happen to our programmer work force.  We have to
stand together to fight this trend.

Even major companies are now moving their headquarters OFFSHORE to escape
U.S. taxes.  Where is there any social responsibility or accountability for
these actions?  I know that the stockholders' value rules supreme, BUT I
heard of a case where the stockholders voted NOT to move the headquarters
offshore (I believe it was Black & Decker Co.).

JMHO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Nelson" <p_nelson-br@pop.inil.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)


I would've if I could've.

As for cars, 2 Fords & 3 GM's the oldest being an 83 Cadillac Eldorado that
I'm restoring for my beautiful wife.

David would cut us off if I got started on my views as to the lack of the
knowledge of history exhibited by today's 18-34 year old market. You need
only look at Jay Leno's history and geography quizzes that he gives to
college students.

Suffice it to say that I took my 17 year old son to see the movie "Pearl
Harbor" last year, shortly after we had watched "Band of Brothers" on HBO
(btw, HBO Video is a 400 shop). When the attack scene was over, I asked him
if he had any questions as to why the Nelson family avoids purchasing
foreign products. His response: "Not anymore".

I am proud to say that this young man is going through the process of trying
to get into the United States Naval Academy, with the goal of becoming a
Marine officer. Semper Fi.

Paul Nelson
Braxton-Reed, Inc.
630-327-8665 Cell
708-923-7354 Home
pnelson@braxton-reed.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Booth Martin" <Booth@MartinVT.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)


> --
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> Then why wouldn't you buy my cast iron Paul? My wholesale finished price
was
> only 10 times the cost for the same or better quality from off-shore.  As
a
> patriotic citizen why wouldn't you pay me $100 for a $10 item?  By the
way,
> what kind of a car do you drive?
>
> I am not attacking you Paul, I am only trying to make the point that
> isolationist trade policy doesn't work, mostly because consumers demands
> overwhelm government regulation.
>
> What policies & practices does India's government impose that you'd
consider
> as hampering or restricting their workers?  I am not aware of any, in fact
I
> wish there were more.  I wish India had OSHA. I wish India had emissions
> controls.  I wish India had minimum wages and mandatory overtime pay
rates.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Booth Martin   http://www.MartinVT.com
> Booth@MartinVT.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: midrange-l@midrange.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:56:46 AM
> To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)
>
> I'm just saying that we need to take care of our own people before sending
> our cash elsewhere.
> We're not stepping on anybody's necks. Their governments are.
>
> Paul Nelson
> Braxton-Reed, Inc.
> 630-327-8665 Cell
> 708-923-7354 Home
> pnelson@braxton-reed.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Booth Martin" <Booth@MartinVT.com>
> To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 9:39 AM
> Subject: RE: Jobs (or the lack of....)
>
>
> > --
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >
> > Before I started programming as a career I owned a cast iron foundry.
> I've
> > been through this battle and still have the emotional and financial
scars.
> > At the end, I could buy finished cast iron delivered to my doorstep from
> > India for less than the cost of my raw pig iron. We blamed unions, we
> > blamed energy costs, we blamed environmental costs, we blamed fringe
> > benefits. In short we spent a lot of energy blaming the world. It didn't
> > make a difference. We still closed and put close to 50 unskilled
American
> > families out of work.
> >
> > About quality: Don't sing that tune; find some other tune. Programmers
> > learn fast.
> >
> > In the end for my own emotional well-being I had to accept the idea that
I
> > am a citizen of the World. Raising the standard of living for
> impoverished
> > people can't be considered a bad thing.
> >
> > How can we compete at our high earnings? I haven't an answer, but I'm
> sure
> > we can't ever win by stepping on the necks of impoverished people
fighting
> > to feed their own children.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Booth Martin http://www.MartinVT.com
> > Booth@MartinVT.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Date: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:14:55 AM
> > To: 'midrange-l@midrange.com'; midrange-jobs@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Jobs (or the lack of....)
> >
> > Mr. Nelson states :
> > "We need to turn around the argument that the offshore can do the
> > work for less money to one
> > where the work is done with higher quality in less time. "
> >
> >
> > The answer to that statement is very simple, and it has everything
> > to do with cost. When we go to Wal-Mart to buy a shirt, it's made
> somewhere
> > other than the U.S.A., but we don't care because it's inexpensive. The
> > shirt's quality, while usually less than desirable, is acceptable
because
> of
> > the price of the shirt. Translated into software, just look at
> > Windows...we can't stand the fact that we have to reboot 2 times a week,
> but
> > the $110.00 price tag for the OS offsets our frustration.
> >
> > Hence, a U.S. company has a strong financial incentive to use
> > offshore labor because while the quality may be lacking (and this is
> > debatable as time goes by), the price for that labor is so damn cheap,
> they
> > don't care.
> >
> > Finally, outsourcing turns labor into a capitalized cost instead of
> > a long-term commitment involving labor disputes, last productivity due
to
> > illness, insurance, retirement issues, and so forth.
> >
> > So, what's the solution? I don't know, but I do know that preaching
> > quality ain't gonn'a save our jobs, so let's explore other avenues too.
> >
> >
> > Just my .02 worth. :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ray Shahan
> >
> > "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans", John Lennon
> > --
> > [ Content of type image/gif deleted ]
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _____________________________________________________
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> >
>
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