Re: Jobs (or the lack of....) -- MIDRANGE-L

Paul - I'm fighting fire with fire...

I would rather make $ 25.00/hr than nothing, so I have given my client a
proposal to use one of MY AS/400 consultants at $ 25.00 per hour.  I have
already been given preliminary approval by the client.

And, by the way...they aren't going to get this rate forever.  When I find
work that pays decent rates again, I'll just give the client a one-month
notice that my consultant will be leaving unless they can match the rate
offered by the new client.

Steve Landess

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Nelson" <p_nelson-br@pop.inil.com>
To: <midrange-jobs@midrange.com>; <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)


> Peggy, get proof, and shine the spotlight on this corruption. In the long
> run, you'll win.
>
> Steve,
> If you have any say in the writing of the specifications/job requirements
> perhaps you could slip in something requiring IBM certification on the
> 400/iSeries. Larry Bolhuis, who is a regular contributor to this list,
> participates with IBM to produce the certification tests given at the
COMMON
> conferences. He would love to see people lining up to become certified.
> I've been in this profession since 1974, and I thought I knew a lot about
> OS/400. I took the administrator's test last spring in Nashville. I
passed,
> but was embarrassed by my wrong answers. At this conference, I'll be
> focusing on those things where the test exposed my weaknesses.
>
> (soapbox mode *ON)
>
> I urge all of you who don't invest in your education to go to COMMON or
some
> other provider of education and do your part to rectify this off shore
> project situation. You may claim that these things are too expensive, or
> that you would prefer to spend your vacation time with your families, but
> what is it going to cost you if you don't spend the time and money? Just
ask
> an unemployed blue collar worker whose job has just gone to Mexico or
China.
> What do they say to their kids?
>
> What we're seeing in the tech sector is no different than what has been
> happening to the manufacturing sector for the last couple of decades. We
> have only ourselves and our elected officials to blame. We need to turn
> around the argument that the offshores can do the work for less money to
one
> where the work is done with higher quality in less time. With all due
> respect to my friends from overseas, given the events of the past year,
> there's also no shame in using the patriotism angle. We have to do all we
> can to protect our future.
>
> Call me an isolationist or a redneck or whatever, but I don't care. I call
> 'em the way I see 'em, and I'll also continue to fight for education as a
> means of fighting back.
>
> (soapbox mode *OFF)
>
> Paul Nelson
> 630-327-8665 Cell
> 708-923-7354 Home
> pnelson@braxton-reed.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Peggymcmur@aol.com>
> To: <steve_landess@hotmail.com>; <midrange-jobs@midrange.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Jobs (or the lack of....)
>
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Well stated!  The decision makers continue to go with the 'cheaper'
> per/hour
> > IT solution, even though time and time again we see miscommunicated
specs,
> > project deadlines not being met, and even larger IT outsourced budgets,
to
> > say nothing of the frustration in seeing U.S. Citizen jobs being 'given
> > away'.  The only thing I would add to Steve's statement is that I
> personally
> > know of two Indian firms giving under the table kickbacks to a CFO and
CIO
> > decision maker at two separate companies.  Need I say more as to why
this
> is
> > occurring.  The question is, "Are the rest of us just going to sit back
> and
> > watch it occur?"
> >
> > Peggy McMurtray, Owner
> > Preferred Midrange Solutions, Inc.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/27/02 10:49:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > steve_landess@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> >
> > > Subj:Jobs (or the lack of....)
> > > Date:9/27/02 10:49:35 AM Central Daylight Time
> > > From:<A
> HREF="mailto:steve_landess@hotmail.com";>steve_landess@hotmail.com</A>
> > > To:<A
> HREF="mailto:midrange-jobs@midrange.com";>midrange-jobs@midrange.com</A>
> > > Sent from the Internet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > > --
> > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > > I have been reading the thread of messages about "Jobs", and here's my
2
> > > cents worth...
> > >
> > > I have not experienced any employment problems in the last couple of
> years,
> > > like many of you guys.  I like to think it is because I am so good,
but
> in
> > > reality I am extremely lucky to have latched onto a project just
before
> > > everything turned to crap.  I am part owner of a consulting firm based
> in
> > > Dallas, Texas.  We were particularly hard hit by the downturn - we had
> over
> > > 100 consultants 2 years ago, now we have less than 20.  I think that
> many
> > > of you have not considered what is currently happening to our
industry,
> and
> > > how widespread the effect will eventually be on Information Technology
> as a
> > > career.
> > >
> > > I am an AS/400 consultant working on a large-scale systems integration
> > > project for a Fortune 200 company.  This company has recently decided
to
> > > outsource their software development and support efforts to offshore
> > > companies using a combination of onshore (H1B) employees and offshore
> > > developers.  There are many factors that have caused the company to
> follow
> > > this route.  Being a public corporation and accountable to
stockholders
> is
> > > definitely a consideration, but I would say that it has as much to do
> with
> > > executives getting their bonuses and stock options as a result of
> improved
> > > company performance based on the cost savings that they think they
will
> > > realize.
> > >
> > > Personally, this will eventually affect me, since I am an American
> citizen
> > > hourly contractor.  Company management has told me that eventually I
> will
> > > be replaced by a $25.00 per hour Indian programmer.  I supposed that I
> > > might be able to bargain with them and stay employed if I match the
> rate,
> > > but if I do, it will only be until I found a better opportunity
> elsewhere.
> > >
> > > My major concern is that this company really believes that they are
> going
> > > to get comparable experience/performance out of a $ 25.00 per hour
> > > contractor working FROM India that they get from me.  In my opinion,
> this
> > > is ludicrous.  I have Bachelors and Masters degrees in Business.  I
have
> > > been a programmer/analyst/consultant working in business environments
> for
> > > 22 years, having technical ability combined with business,
> communications,
> > > and people training and skills.  Many times I have been given a
project
> > > that had unclear objectives.  My training and experience give me the
> tools
> > > that I need to ask relevant questions and eliminate the ambiguities
that
> > > are often found in system and/or program specifications. This helps to
> > > clarify the specifications so that they are meaningful to both the end
> user
> > > as well as the programmer/analyst.
> > >
> > > The Indian consultant that replaces me will likely be a recent college
> > > graduate with mostly technical abilities (probably 3-5 years of work
> > > experience or less).  He (or she) will probably not be very conversant
> in
> > > English and have a thick accent, thus difficult to communicate with.
He
> > > will probably require the same level of assistance that  the typical
> junior
> > > programmer needs in order to accomplish the work, more because of
> > > communications difficulties than ability.  He will probably spend a
lot
> of
> > > time on the phone/internet seeking assistance from his
> peers/instructors.
> > > He will need very detailed specifications written by someone
(preferably
> > > bilingual - English/Indian) in order that they might be able to assist
> him
> > > with the many questions that will need to be answered.  It is also
> > > necessary to write very detailed instructions for these workers to
> follow
> > > when testing the programs that they have created (or have someone
whose
> job
> > > is purely testing programs, a position which does not exist now).  We
> > > currently have several contract Indian programmers ONSITE that fit
this
> > > description.
> > >
> > > The resultant cost savings may be very difficult to measure.  The end
> > > result is that the IT organization will more closely resemble
something
> > > from the 60's or 70's, when analysts did all of the analysis, writing
> > > specifications for programmers who did only programming.  Without the
> > > proper methodology, I predict that the development cycle will use
> > > significantly more time and resources.  The quality control function
> will
> > > find a lot of bugs that should have been caught in unit testing by the
> > > programmer/analyst.  Additional iterations of programming/QA will
result
> in
> > > projects taking significantly more time than originally estimated,
thus
> > > negating much of the anticipated cost savings.
> > >
> > > Offshore outsourcing, whatever its negatives, is probably here to
stay,
> and
> > > we are only seeing the first wave.  Who is to blame for the situation
we
> > > are facing?  We are, at least partially:
> > >
> > > 1) Greed - Exorbitant salary increases and demands by workers during
the
> > > 90's internet boom.
> > > 2) Lack of motivation - Decreasing college enrollment by American
> students
> > > for IT and computer-science related jobs.
> > > 3) Disloyalty - Companies are no longer loyal to employees, just as
> > > employees are no longer loyal to companies.
> > > 4) Complacency - How many of you have improved your skills over the
> years?
> > > Are you still doing the same thing you were doing 10 years ago?  Have
> you
> > > saved money for a "rainy day", in the event that you lose your job and
> need
> > > retraining?  Better yet, are you actively trying to figure out the
"new
> new
> > > thing" that you want to do?
> > >
> > > Other factors that we have little control over are also at play here:
> > >
> > > 1)  Large companies, including M$, Sun, and IBM have lobbied long and
> hard
> > > and paid high prices to their lobbyists to increase the number of H1B
> > > workers because of so-called "lack of qualified applicants".  In
reality
> > > this translates to "finding people who will work for $ 30,000 per year
> > > instead of $ 80,000 per year".
> > > 2)  After Y2K was finished, many people were let go from temporary
jobs.
> > > This was compounded by the internet bubble bursting in 2000, and
further
> > > compounded by the events of September 11, 2001.
> > > 3)  Decreasing demand for products because of global economic
slowdowns.
> > >
> > > JMHO
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS)
mailing
> > > list
> > > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-JOBS@midrange.com
> > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-jobs
> > > or email: MIDRANGE-JOBS-request@midrange.com
> > > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-jobs.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-JOBS@midrange.com
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-jobs
> > or email: MIDRANGE-JOBS-request@midrange.com
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-jobs.
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-JOBS@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-jobs
> or email: MIDRANGE-JOBS-request@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-jobs.
>