Al, I started replying to this last night. But since my reply might also be copied to folks at IBM, I think I wanna get a couple iterations, and try to get it (at least approximately) right the first time. I'll probably split my reply in two pieces, addressing two separate issues. I'll also move this thread to the iNation list, and forward a copy to you privately, in case you're not subscribed to that list. The first line of the draft of this reply was: "Thanks both for the reply, and especially for copying the pertinent people at IBM." I don't know if your an iCitizen, Al. Makes no difference, to me, because you saw a need and you DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I know you've been doing this for years... (though I don't know even a fraction of the particulars). So in my mind that makes you Citizen #1...! Or rather, in a tie with Neil and Jim who, AFAIK, were the first two to sign up. Tied with Wayne, david, Don and the rest of the iFreedom Council. I'd add Leslie Russell, James Kilgore, and both Brads to this list--and could easily add a few hundred others. (Don't mean to slight anyone, but just trying to keep the bandwidth chargeback to a minimum...;-) And I'm sure there are countless others, both inside IBM and out, that I don't know of... Some who do their work out in the public eye, and **many who, like most the IBMers, don't**, who are also tied with you. It's these folks, regardless of whether they got an iNation passport or not, who are responsible iCitizens, IMV. All that to say, thanks again, Al. jt | -----Original Message----- | From: firstname.lastname@example.org | [mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf Of | firstname.lastname@example.org | Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:15 PM | To: email@example.com | Subject: RE: Question for Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning | software?) | | | | Hi, | | I am responding to this with a copy to the pertinent people at IBM. | | I am a dis-sat as anyone with iSeries documentation, yet I have an | appreciation for the amount of work that goes into the documentation | effort. I meet with these folks regularly, I repeatedly slap them in the | face (figuratively speaking - of course), and they keep trying harder and | harder. They are about some of the nicest people in Rochester. | | There are two parts to the problem. OS/400 is *MASSIVE and growing | quickly. They are trying to keep costs down by going to the web, and | sometimes these efforts work well, and at other times they fail. | The other | is the never ending fight for $$$$$$. | | Just last week I reviewed a new web-based paradigm for documenting CL | commands for two releases from now, and sent back lots of feedback. I | doubt that we could do as good a job, but visit with the documentation | folks, they are on the Expo floor at COMMON, and they try to listen. | | Al | | Al Barsa, Jr. | Barsa Consulting Group, LLC | | 400>390 | | 914-251-1234 | 914-251-9406 fax | | http://www.barsaconsulting.com | http://www.taatool.com | | | | | | | "jt" <firstname.lastname@example.org> | Sent by: To: | <email@example.com> | midrange-l-admin@mi cc: | drange.com Subject: RE: | Question for Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning | software?) | | 12/11/01 05:39 PM | Please respond to | midrange-l | | | | | | | Al/anyone... | | After I mulled over this a day or two, I realized I had asked the wrong | question. Or rather I should have asked two separate questions: | | ===> What would it take to get IBM to, at least, *consider* the | possibility | of turning over iSeries documentation to the iNation...?!? | | ===> What would it take for iCitizens to develop world-class | documentation? | | | The second question is totally independent of the first. You can look for | answers to the second question, whether or not IBM wants to support the | iNation in this regard. Obviously, this could be done MUCH | better with IBM | support. But it's not a necessary condition. | | FAQs abound without any help from IBM. IMHO, they just suffer | from lack of | enough people comitting time and effort, and lack of decent software to | organize the project, more than lacking anything else. Seems like that | would be one area the iNation could provide a very visible value-add to | iCitizens. (Again, with or without IBM help.) | | | jt | | | | -----Original Message----- | | From: firstname.lastname@example.org | | [mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf Of jt | | Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:18 PM | | To: firstname.lastname@example.org | | Subject: Question for Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning | | software?) | | | | | | Al, | | | | I appreciate how EXTREMELY forward this post is, being as IIRC | | (;-)) this is | | the first post we've exhanged. | | | | | | "YOU DEFINITELY have a loooong ways to go, to catch up to me in the | "dumb" | | department..." That being the case, I was wondering if you were on the | | iSN-Citizens list, and had any interest in brain-storming this question: | | | | WHAT WOULD IT TAKE... (meaning, starting from the POV it is at least | | *theoretically* possible)... | | | | ===> What would it take to get IBM to, at least, *consider* the | | possibility | | of turning over iSeries documentation to the iNation...?!? | | | | | | Problem below illustrates the need, precisely. Apparently incorrect | | information (at the very least contracdictory information) has led both | | software and hardware vendors to avoid LODRUN. This *could* be one of | the | | great assests of the iSeries, but it isn't... The problem | isn't this one | | isolated incident. It's endemic to the system... The people | responsible | | for InfoCenter, and other docs, ***don't use the 400 to produce | | apps, day in | | and day out.*** It would be mathematically impossible for them to | produce | | optimal documentation, even if they had the bodies... | | | | There are some 30,000 to 50,000 "bodies" in the iNation. They use the | | product, daily. | | | | => They have a vested interest in producing the most effective | | documentation | | possible at the least cost possible. Much moreso than the | | InfoCenter crew. | | The, I assume fairly significant, expense IBM puts into | | documenting the 400 | | could be cut, and better spent by putting iSeries customers DIRECTLY in | | contact with the appropriate product developers. That, in | | itself, would be | | time-consuming enough for IBM (if done properly). | | | | | | However, that's the theory... | | | | Now, how could the iNation get IBM to consider supporting something like | | this...?!? (Starting with one small piece of all the | | documentation and, if | | relatively successful, building from there.) | | | | ===> One thing that might help is that, IMV and Mr. Haines', one of the | | greatest possible benefits of the iNation, to IBM, is grassroots | | marketing. | | But that could be a pretty risky venture, for both IBM and the | | iCitizens... | | Sometimes it's better to start with a less-risky proposition, | | like something | | /fairly/ straight-forward as this documentation project... (ie | | crawl before | | walk...) | | | | | | Again.. appreciate I'm putting you on the spot, Al... | Question's open to | | anybody, however. (I'm just looking for some excuse to avoid doing some | | work today...;-) Today might not be the best day, but is | | tomorrow gonna be | | better...? | | | | jt
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