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  3. December 2001

RE: Question for Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning software?)

Hi,

I am responding to this with a copy to the pertinent people at IBM.

I am a dis-sat as anyone with iSeries documentation, yet I have an
appreciation for the amount of work that goes into the documentation
effort.  I meet with these folks regularly, I repeatedly slap them in the
face (figuratively speaking - of course), and they keep trying harder and
harder.  They are about some of the nicest people in Rochester.

There are two parts to the problem.  OS/400 is *MASSIVE and growing
quickly.  They are trying to keep costs down by going to the web, and
sometimes these efforts work well, and at other times they fail.  The other
is the never ending fight for $$$$$$.

Just last week I reviewed a new web-based paradigm for documenting CL
commands for two releases from now, and sent back lots of feedback.  I
doubt that we could do as good a job, but visit with the documentation
folks, they are on the Expo floor at COMMON, and they try to listen.

Al

Al Barsa, Jr.
Barsa Consulting Group, LLC

400>390

914-251-1234
914-251-9406 fax

http://www.barsaconsulting.com
http://www.taatool.com






                    "jt" <jt@ee.net>
                    Sent by:                  To:     <midrange-l@midrange.com>
                    midrange-l-admin@mi       cc:
                    drange.com                Subject:     RE: Question for 
Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning
                                               software?)

                    12/11/01 05:39 PM
                    Please respond to
                    midrange-l






Al/anyone...

After I mulled over this a day or two, I realized I had asked the wrong
question.  Or rather I should have asked two separate questions:

===> What would it take to get IBM to, at least, *consider* the possibility
of turning over iSeries documentation to the iNation...?!?

===> What would it take for iCitizens to develop world-class documentation?


The second question is totally independent of the first.  You can look for
answers to the second question, whether or not IBM wants to support the
iNation in this regard.  Obviously, this could be done MUCH better with IBM
support.  But it's not a necessary condition.

FAQs abound without any help from IBM.  IMHO, they just suffer from lack of
enough people comitting time and effort, and lack of decent software to
organize the project, more than lacking anything else.  Seems like that
would be one area the iNation could provide a very visible value-add to
iCitizens.  (Again, with or without IBM help.)


jt


| -----Original Message-----
| From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of jt
| Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:18 PM
| To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| Subject: Question for Al... and/or anyone... (was RE: CD Burning
| software?)
|
|
| Al,
|
| I appreciate how EXTREMELY forward this post is, being as IIRC
| (;-)) this is
| the first post we've exhanged.
|
|
| "YOU DEFINITELY have a loooong ways to go, to catch up to me in the
"dumb"
| department..."  That being the case, I was wondering if you were on the
| iSN-Citizens list, and had any interest in brain-storming this question:
|
| WHAT WOULD IT TAKE...  (meaning, starting from the POV it is at least
| *theoretically* possible)...
|
| ===> What would it take to get IBM to, at least, *consider* the
| possibility
| of turning over iSeries documentation to the iNation...?!?
|
|
| Problem below illustrates the need, precisely.  Apparently incorrect
| information (at the very least contracdictory information) has led both
| software and hardware vendors to avoid LODRUN.  This *could* be one of
the
| great assests of the iSeries, but it isn't...  The problem isn't this one
| isolated incident.  It's endemic to the system...  The people responsible
| for InfoCenter, and other docs, ***don't use the 400 to produce
| apps, day in
| and day out.***  It would be mathematically impossible for them to
produce
| optimal documentation, even if they had the bodies...
|
| There are some 30,000 to 50,000 "bodies" in the iNation.  They use the
| product, daily.
|
| => They have a vested interest in producing the most effective
| documentation
| possible at the least cost possible.  Much moreso than the
| InfoCenter crew.
| The, I assume fairly significant, expense IBM puts into
| documenting the 400
| could be cut, and better spent by putting iSeries customers DIRECTLY in
| contact with the appropriate product developers.  That, in
| itself, would be
| time-consuming enough for IBM (if done properly).
|
|
| However, that's the theory...
|
| Now, how could the iNation get IBM to consider supporting something like
| this...?!?  (Starting with one small piece of all the
| documentation and, if
| relatively successful, building from there.)
|
| ===> One thing that might help is that, IMV and Mr. Haines', one of the
| greatest possible benefits of the iNation, to IBM, is grassroots
| marketing.
| But that could be a pretty risky venture, for both IBM and the
| iCitizens...
| Sometimes it's better to start with a less-risky proposition,
| like something
| /fairly/ straight-forward as this documentation project...  (ie
| crawl before
| walk...)
|
|
| Again.. appreciate I'm putting you on the spot, Al...  Question's open to
| anybody, however.  (I'm just looking for some excuse to avoid doing some
| work today...;-)  Today might not be the best day, but is
| tomorrow gonna be
| better...?
|
| jt
|
|
| | -----Original Message-----
| | From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| | [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of jt
| | Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:19 AM
| | To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| | Subject: RE: CD Burning software?
| |
| |
| | Al,
| |
| | >From the link david provided, step 3:
| |
| | "Change the owner to QSYS.
| | QSYS MUST be the owner of the QINSTAPP program
| |
| | CHGOBJOWN OBJ(QTEMP/QINSTAPP) OBJTYPE(*PGM) NEWOWN(QSYS)"
| |
| | This is why I prefer to test EVERY piece of information against actual
| | experience, no matter WHO it comes from.  You and others have
| contradicted
| | this theory, and while I haven't tried it myself, I tend to go by your
| | experience rather than IBM docs, in this case (and many others).
| |
| |
| | BTW, NOBODY'S perfect.. but YOU DEFINITELY have a loooong ways to go,
to
| | catch up to me in the "dumb" department...  LOL...!
| |
| | I'm still looking for that English-Netspeak dictionary myself.
| | IIRC = If I
| | Recall Correctly.  Anyone in the biz for a length of time knows
| | the problems
| | of "intermittant Alzeimher's" which I suffer from...  As the son of a
| | Professor of Journalism, I learned to qualify ALL my
| statements.. but I've
| | slacked off...  I should preface EVERY sentence with IIRC...;-)
| |
| | jt
| |
| | | -----Original Message-----
| | | From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| | | [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of
| | | barsa@barsaconsulting.com
| | | Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:52 AM
| | | To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| | | Subject: RE: CD Burning software?
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | jt,
| | |
| | | I'm not in the office, so I don't have access to my system, but
| | I'm fairly
| | | sure that QINSTAPP doesn't have to be owned by QSYS.  We use LODRUN
to
| | | install TAA Tools.
| | |
| | | Not to be dumb, but what is IIRC?
| | |
| | | Al
| | |
| | | Al Barsa, Jr.
| | | Barsa Consulting Group, LLC
| | |
| | | 400>390
| | |
| | | 914-251-1234
| | | 914-251-9406 fax
| | |
| | | http://www.barsaconsulting.com
| | | http://www.taatool.com
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |                     "jt" <jt@ee.net>
| | |                     Sent by:                  To:
| | | <midrange-l@midrange.com>
| | |                     midrange-l-admin@mi       cc:
| | |                     drange.com                Subject:     RE: CD
| | | Burning software?
| | |
| | |
| | |                     12/09/01 10:19 AM
| | |                     Please respond to
| | |                     midrange-l
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | Al,
| | |
| | |
| | | IIRC (and I'm pretty sure I do) the docs said that QINSTAPP
| | | *MUST* be owned
| | | by QSYS.  I don't always believe the docs, and comments on the list
| | | indicate
| | | otherwise...
| | |
| | |
| | | I'm still flummoxed by this issue of LODRUN...  OT1H, you're
| | lookin to pay
| | | good money to a software vendor, and run their app or tool on your
| | | system...
| | | But OTOH, you wouldn't trust their install program...?!?
| | |
| | | Like you said, I think there's a bug in the logic here, as you
| | necessarily
| | | imply an awful lot of trust in the vendor, in the first place.
| | |
| | |
| | | jt
| | |
| | | | -----Original Message-----
| | | | From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| | | | [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of
| | | | barsa@barsaconsulting.com
| | | | Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 7:50 AM
| | | | To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| | | | Subject: Re: CD Burning software?
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | A few points:
| | | |
| | | | 1).  If Brad's device (which I have contacted him on, and
| expressed an
| | | | interest in purchasing) emulates a 7208, it supports LODRUN.
| | LODRUN was
| | | a
| | | | cheap command to write, and was basically written in CL.
| | | | 2).  I could be wrong here, but I don't think that there's an
| | ownership
| | | | restriction on LODRUN programs (which must be called QINSTAPP and
be
| | | saved
| | | | from QTEMP), although there are clearly run time restrictions.
I've
| | | | probably written more QINSTAPP programs than anyone.  I am
| out of the
| | | | office, so I am limited as to my ability to look up stuff.
| | | | 3).  When I buy software, I am placing trust in my vendor.
| (Maybe I'm
| | | | stupid.)  So I do not consider this a security risk.  Clearly
| | LODRUN is
| | | | better tan following a run sheet that I could screw up.
| | | |
| | | | Al
| | | |
| | | | Al Barsa, Jr.
| | | | Barsa Consulting Group, LLC
| | | |
| | | | 400>390
| | | |
| | | | 914-251-1234
| | | | 914-251-9406 fax
| | | |
| | | | http://www.barsaconsulting.com
| | | | http://www.taatool.com
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |                     "Brad Jensen"
| | | |                     <brad@elstore.com>        To:
| | | | <midrange-l@midrange.com>
| | | |                     Sent by:                  cc:
| | | |                     midrange-l-admin@mi       Subject:     Re: CD
| | | | Burning software?
| | | |                     drange.com
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |                     12/09/01 01:24 AM
| | | |                     Please respond to
| | | |                     midrange-l
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | ----- Original Message -----
| | | | From: "Don" <dr2@cssas400.com>
| | | | To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
| | | | Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:25 PM
| | | | Subject: Re: CD Burning software?
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | >
| | | | >
| | | | > Uh, anyone shipping any product SHOULD support LODRUN.
| | | |
| | | | Thanks for the suggestion, I'll talk to my people about this.
| | | | Should be pretty easy to add to the product.
| | | |
| | | | I have to ask, is there anyone on this list that considers CDs
| | | | with LODRUN a bad idea to install on their AS/400?
| | | |
| | | | _______________________________________________
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| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
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