RE: PTF for viewing open files (WRKJOB/DSPJOB) for V5R1 -- MIDRANGE-L

Rob,

More comments, in line...:-)

jt

| -----Original Message-----
| From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of rob@dekko.com
| Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 2:30 PM
| To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| Subject: RE: PTF for viewing open files (WRKJOB/DSPJOB) for V5R1
| Importance: High
|
|
|
| Comments in line
| -I think what they both have to do with is FORCING people to abandon
| green-screen...
| >Yes, I think that was his point.  But that is not what he said.

True...


|
| -It goes under the guise of "too expensive" to provide to multiple
| interfaces
| to the system, so they build this GUI crap, and choose not to put the
| functionality into CL commands.
| Same thing with SQL/DDS...  They imply its too expensive to put
| the new SQL
| features into DDS.  Well that's a line...  And I think some 3rd party will
| prove that, down the road...  Anybody who's seen how Query/400,
| OPNQRYF and
| SQL were originally built around the same core code, isn't likely to buy
| the
| notion that "it just can't be done".
| >I don't think that DDS and the Query/400, OPNQRYF, SQL triumvirate are
| built around the same code.

I'm relatively certain it was, as it's been so stated, over the years...
The same *base DB code* with different sets of user interfaces, that is...


|
| -CL is one of the CORE STRENGTHS of the 38/400/i, Ooops Nav (as some refer
| to
| it) is one of the core weaknesses...  Yet where are the
| development dollars
| going...?!?
| >Granted green screen commands can be faster, but I think you are being
| overly negative on Op's Nav.  There are some great features in there.

I think it's my style of writing...  Whenever I state a POV, I sound like
I'm ignoring the other side of the story...  (Occasionally I do just
that...)  Usually, I'm aware there are 2 sides.

In this case, I will be using Ops Nav a lot more, once I get to V5R1...
VERY MANY useful features in it.  The problem I've always had in the past is
response time.  If that hasn't dramatically improved, I won't be using it
much.  Commands are inherently faster, anyway.

Plus, it's been a documented fact for decades, that programmers are several
orders of magnitude more efficient with sub-second response time, that more
than a second.  It makes that much of a difference, because the key
difficulty in coding is maintaining a high-focus train-of-thought.  So you
have the inherent inefficiencies of GUI, compounded by poor response time,
IMV...  I look forward to Ops Nav becoming as good as CL commands, to the
extent any GUI interface can...

Brad Stone recommended a book, a fair while back _In the Beginning was the
Command-Line_, or something close...  It makes a pretty convincing argument
that a GUI is not particularly suitable, for professional coders who place a
value on speed and efficiency...  There are many things that can be done
better using GUI, and many things that can be done a lot worse using same,
IMV...

Point seems to be lost on those who dictate that we're all gonna use a GUI,
before too long...

jt

|
| Rob Berendt
|
| ==================
| "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
| safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
| Benjamin Franklin
|
|
|
|                     "jt" <jt@ee.net>
|                     Sent by:                  To:
| <midrange-l@midrange.com>
|                     midrange-l-admin@mi       cc:
|                     drange.com                Fax to:
|                                               Subject:     RE:
| PTF for viewing open files (WRKJOB/DSPJOB) for V5R1
|
|                     11/30/2001 08:51 AM
|                     Please respond to
|                     midrange-l
|
|
|
|
|
|
| I think what they both have to do with is FORCING people to abandon
| green-screen...
|
| It goes under the guise of "too expensive" to provide to multiple
| interfaces
| to the system, so they build this GUI crap, and choose not to put the
| functionality into CL commands.
|
| Same thing with SQL/DDS...  They imply its too expensive to put
| the new SQL
| features into DDS.  Well that's a line...  And I think some 3rd party will
| prove that, down the road...  Anybody who's seen how Query/400,
| OPNQRYF and
| SQL were originally built around the same core code, isn't likely to buy
| the
| notion that "it just can't be done".
|
| CL is one of the CORE STRENGTHS of the 38/400/i, Ooops Nav (as some refer
| to
| it) is one of the core weaknesses...  Yet where are the
| development dollars
| going...?!?
|
| JMHO.
|
| jt
|
|
| | -----Original Message-----
| | From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
| | [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of rob@dekko.com
| | Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:34 AM
| | To: midrange-l@midrange.com
| | Subject: RE: PTF for viewing open files (WRKJOB/DSPJOB) for V5R1
| |
| |
| |
| | My sentiments exactly.  Op's Nav has nothing to do with your console
| being
| | twinax/Op's Console.  Although we've never applied the suggested PTF.
| Not
| | doing so has had our developers notice that a file they THOUGHT
| they were
| | doing an override to was in the wrong activation group.
| |
| | Rob Berendt
| |
| | ==================
| | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
| | safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
| | Benjamin Franklin
| |
| |
| |
| |                     "Andy
| |                     Nolen-Parkhouse"          To:
| | <midrange-l@midrange.com>
| |                     <aparkhouse@mediaon       cc:
| |                     e.net>                    Fax to:
| |                     Sent by:                  Subject:     RE:
| | PTF for viewing open files (WRKJOB/DSPJOB) for V5R1
| |                     midrange-l-admin@mi
| |                     drange.com
| |
| |
| |                     11/30/2001 06:44 AM
| |                     Please respond to
| |                     midrange-l
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | Neil,
| |
| | I'm not sure I see the link between using Operations Navigator to work
| | with jobs and your statement that you don't want a PC console.  I agree
| | with the wariness to control a production system with a PC, but I have
| | used Operations Navigator successfully on twinax-console systems.  Am I
| | making a mistake here or has something changed?  I don't see where 'this
| | feature is required there.'
| |
| | Regards,
| | Andy Nolen-Parkhouse
| |
| | > Well, that's nice to know, but the consensus from many AS400/iSeries
| | > professionals on Midrange-L (and elsewhere) is that there's no way in
| | > h**l they are going to use a PC as a system console, and this feature
| | is
| | > required there.