RE: OSS for the iSeries -- MIDRANGE-L

< I wrote this prior to getting this reply...  The only thing I would add is
that many OSS developers give lip service to the idea of abandoning ego, and
it's not as easy as what it appears.  Look at Linus, ESR, RMS...  The
leaders clearly have some of the biggest egos around...  I'd also add that
many of my views are misinterpreted, and I hope I've cleared some of them up
in my reply to Janet, just posted. >


James,

As a matter of fact, your project suffers from lack of venture capital.
This, IMV, is the failure of OSS development.


I've studied it sufficiently to know that there are advantages and
disadvantages to OSS.

===> But it's fundamental premise is a disrespect for ownership of
intellectual property.  You can argue against this view, 'till doomsday, but
the fact remains.  The advantages to the methodology are PERCEIVED to hinge
on giving code away.  But the advantages DO NOT DIRECTLY DEPEND on giving
code away for free.

The goal being destruction of intellectual property rights, the leaders of
the movement work backwards to the facts.  That's why they present their
case illogically.  They start with the goal and work backwards to the facts.
I am more than willing to do an analysis of the writings of RMS, whose
(basically communist) philosophy forms the underpinings of OSS.  I can
hardly stomach a lot of the writings of ESR, but can also address these
briefly.  Linus views, and actions, need little discussion.  I've never seen
him refute the claim, by many, that he is G-d.  His stated goal is "world
domination".  Now if the movement is fundamentally sound, why do you need
such a goal...?

I object to Linus' views and actions, NOT because I abhor them, but because
they make no sense.

Linus is a multi-millionaire now, based on the slave labor of a bunch of
lemmings, who make less that the lowest migrant worker.  It's a small wonder
to me, that Fed Fair Labor acts have never kicked in.  (BTW, many have
commented how, when VA/Linux IPOd, ESR became worth $43M overnight.  And how
Bruce Perens (Debian/GNU) saw quite a bit less working for HP.  And how RMS
saw none of this money.  Didn't see anyone question ON WHOSE LABOR these
guys became rich, though.)


All that to say...  Your WyattERP project, given a small change in
direction, could probably GREATLY benefit the iSeries Community.  The shift
in focus I would recommend is to lose the idea the software must be given
away.  I believe that would possibly cause WyattERP to have an ill effect on
the iSeries Community, on a whole, because it would under-cut the efforts of
a good iSeries ISV, AccountMates.  They have worked hard to develop a
low-end solution, too, which I believe overlaps WyattERP, and provides
support to go along with it.  WyattERP, if successful, could kill
AccountMates.  You can always hope that AccountMates will change their
business model, to give their software away and just sell support... That
would also level the playing field, but I don't see that happening, anytime
soon.

If you object strongly to the idea of turning WyattERP into a for-profit
venture, consider charging for it and donating all the proceeds to the
iNation.  This would keep the playing field level, and still accomplish your
goal of non-profit software...  However, I'll think you'll find that some
(or all) of the proceeds will be needed to make WyattERP self-sustaining.


Perhaps it should be added to the list of projects that the iNation should
provide "venture capital" for, to use the term loosely.  (That would be
assuming the iNation had any money, and any discretion where to allocate the
funds, of course.)

JMHO.

jt




> -----Original Message-----
> From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
> [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of jt
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 6:55 AM
> To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> Subject: RE: OO benefits? (was Re: Fast400 Value to iSeries community is
> less than zero )
>
>
> James,
>
> Thanks for the post...  Yes, I had heard.  I check in on the OpenERP list
> archives from time to time.
>
> jt
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
> > [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of James W. Kilgore
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 6:03 AM
> > To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Subject: Re: OO benefits? (was Re: Fast400 Value to iSeries community is
> > less than zero )
> >
> >
> > jt,
> >
> > Just an FYI, in case you haven't heard ....
> >
> > The WyattERP project is an OSS specifically intended to attract
> > the "low-end" to
> > the iSeries.
> >
> > By "low-end" it's the $5-$20M/yr revenue sized company.
> >
> >
> >
> > jt wrote:
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > Another OUTSTANDING point.
> > >
> > > I'm sure that's it, plus I'm guessing almost all ISVs have
> > ceded the low-end
> > > to OSS developers anyway.  How can you compete when "free" is
> > the low-end
> > > price...?  Makes the REAL high end look especially attractive...
> > >
> > > I've recently posted my opinion, on ZDNet, of OSS primarily
> > being made up of
> > > amateurs
> > <<snip>>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
> [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of James W. Kilgore
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:04 AM
> To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> Subject: OSS for the iSeries
>
>
> jt,
>
> The really nice thing about OSS is that it offers everyone the
> opportunity to
> walk their talk.
>
> OSS is not just a discussion on theory or "best practice" it is a
> space where
> we, as a community, can experiment and compare notes and have a friendly,
> respectful, debate (hopefully a lively one so noone falls asleep)
> as to the pros
> and cons of a particular solution to a particular problem.
>
> Now there is an inherent problem with not just OSS, but any
> solution.  There
> truly is more than one way to skin a cat.  Just as Linux desktop
> has forked into
> Gnome and KDE they reflect a preference to "taste" or "style"
> that is not right
> or wrong.  They both work, and work well.
>
> IMHO, debating "taste" or "style" is like debating the definition
> of "what is
> art".  To truly be a supporter of OSS one must be willing to
> abandon ego.  To
> place software into the OSS community is nothing more than
> planting a seed.
> What happens after that is beyond your control or opinion.
>
> Personally, I believe that most of the professionals in the
> iSeries community
> have been around for a long time.  As such we have developed a
> habit of self
> protection.  This list allows me to exchange ideas and
> problems/solutions with
> someone across the country or the planet which I do not perceive
> as a threat to
> my revenue producing opportunities on my home turf.
>
> This protection of "home turf" (at any size) may be the inherent
> reluctance of
> true collaboration.  This is why I am not a member of iNation.
> My personal
> opinion is that iNation is nothing more that a placebo to the
> converted to give
> the choir a warm and fuzzy feeling that they actually have
> importance.  ROFLMAO!
>
> If one truly wants to make a difference to the iSeries future one
> need only do
> one thing.  Have courage. What is courage? The ability to let go of the
> familiar.
>
> What is familiar? Everything you know.
>
>
> jt wrote:
> >
> > James,
> >
> > Thanks for the post...  Yes, I had heard.  I check in on the
> OpenERP list
> > archives from time to time.
> _______________________________________________
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> mailing list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>