RE: no Java in XP Windows -- MIDRANGE-L

Chris, Mike

Look, I'm not going to work out all the details for a consent order that
ain't likely to happen.

But let me at least clear up what I'm talking about.

Day 0:  You have 2 companies: M$ and m$.  They both own the code base for
both Windoze and Orifice.  They probably share the same top management for x
period of time.

Day 1:  Both companies gear up their marketing channels, since they have the
same customer base.

Day 2:  They both start trying to cut a deal with Netscape (even though
OSS), if not to buy out the code, at least to develop standards that their
version of Explorer can capitalize on.

Year 1:  Bill Gates allowed to start shifting his portfolio to one company
or the other.

Year 2:  New, probably very similar versions of Windoze, released.  Sorry,
postpone that to year 5...;-)

Year 3:  ??  Who knows, maybe the industry benefits in some ways, and loses
in others.  Well... no maybe about it.  There will be big winners and huge
losers.

I'm no expert on the corporate culture of M$, but from what I've seen, it
based primarily on cannabilism.  Win at all costs.  Destroy or buy out all
competition.  Does any one really believe Bill Gates is doing it for the
money any more...?  Whatever...

The only way I can think of to tame a pit bull, is pit it against another
pit bull.  This may seem ruthless, but M$ coffers are so big, they can
sustain a few rocky years.  But if the industry benefits, as a whole, from
the competition, and if the products from both companies are /open enough/
*to allow developers a common set of APIs to develop to*, then there should
be more money, in total for Bill Gates and all.

As the Linux movement gets larger, however, the chances of any change at M$
become smaller.  And if there is a world-wide depression, there could be a
downside to any settlement like this, so maybe it's best to leave everything
like it is right now...;-)  That's the most likely result of any kind of
consent decree anyway.  M$ has had consent decrees already.  What did they
change?  Whatever...

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it...;-)  I admit it's convenient that
my theory can't be mathematically disproved.  I'm not saying it's not worth
discussing, because I've been following this thread, fairly close.  But it's
all theory, with little practical application.  The iNation may end up being
the same...  Who knows for sure...?  There are too many interesting threads,
that's for sure.

One last quick comment.  Mike you wrote "Would your company give it's
product away to another to improve it and sell it as a competing product? I
think not, unless you are open source. "  I don't know.  IBM might do such a
thing through the iNation, which they would own 50/50.  I don't know if IBM
would do that, but it /does/ make a lot of economic sense.  It would do a
lot to promote innovation.  The problem with Open Source is it doesn't have
a working business model to support it.  Sure they /say/ they have one, but
what it provides is a sure way to drain capital, and what it lacks is a sure
way to generate profits.  Minor details, of course...;-)

jJt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Wills, Mike N. (TC)
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:51 PM
To: 'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'
Subject: RE: no Java in XP Windows
Importance: High


The other problem I see with that is this. Would your company give it's
product away to another to improve it and sell it as a competing product? I
think not, unless you are open source. It wouldn't happen, MS1 would have
WindowsXP, MS2 would have to build one from scratch. Granted they might be
able to create a similar product quite quickly, but actually designing
something new? At first I would have _loved_ to see M$ split up, but now I
realize that there are problems related to that. For one, you still have
Windows, the number one OS in the US, and you still have Office, the number
one office product in the US. Where is the competition in that? Honestly, I
think in a couple years Linux or Unix will finally have a commercial quality
product for the x86 platform which will hurt MS badly. So for a punishment,
I would stab MS a couple times with a knife (because slaps don't teach
lessons) and let them go. "Let the best product win!"

Mike Wills
IT Corporate Support
MNWills@taylorcorp.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Rehm [mailto:javadisciple@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:52 PM
To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject: Re: no Java in XP Windows


> ***What I'm suggesting is two companies that start with the same code
> base.***  Just split them up in two teams (ie companies).  Let them
> duke
it
> out, and given the carnivarous atmosphere at M$, you would probably
> see
some
> amazing innovation.  Therefore, more money for Bill Gates and his
> shareholders.

Well, I wouldn't expect to see the same philosophy as you see now. After
all, both companies are Bill and his shareholders, right? So when they got
into a price war with each other and shaved their margins, it wold be less
money for them, right?

After all, just because there are now two companies doesn't mean there is
suddenly twice the market to chase after.

Also, while this solution might be great for the guy who wants to buy an
"all Microsoft" solution, it doesn't do anything for anyone who wants there
to be a market in which other companies can innovate and make money.
Netscape would not likely be able to bundle with either of the two
companies. Instead, we'd just have lower cost bundles of MS products.
Unless, of course, the two new companies didn't bother to drop their prices,
knowing that the market still has no choice but to deal with one or the
other of them.

> jJt

Chris Rehm
javadisciple@earthlink.net
If you believe that the best technology wins the
marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.


+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com. To
| subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com. To
| unsubscribe from this list send email to
| MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com. Questions should be directed to the
| list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
david@midrange.com
+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---