Re: backups on AS/400, objects

Well, I'm not sure that you were actually asking anything, but here goes...

If you're wondering how to determine where the source is for a compiled
program, use DSPPGM.  It shows the date & time the source was last changed
when the program was compiled, and I would use that to verify against the
source member's date & time last updated.  Note that there is no *absolute*
guarantee that source matches the program object if the timestamps match,
although for this to happen would require it to be done deliberately
(maliciously?).  But also note the opposite as well; it is possible for the
source to match the program object even if the timestamps are different.  It
would be nice to be able to have a command that would take a program object
name and a source file/member name for parameters and return a yea or a nay
for a match.  As I see it, it would require that the source be compiled to
QTEMP and the resulting program object would be compared to the program object
that you're trying to match to the source.  A few years ago, I tried comparing
the outputs of DMPOBJ's for two such program objects that I knew were compiled
from the same source, but there were differences.  Some I'm sure due to the
creation date & time, or the library it was compiled to, stuff like that.
Maybe the MI gurus know?

Second, if the CL program is observable (also shown on DSPPGM), you can run
RTVCLPGM on the program object to produce the source code from the object.
It's very bare, all the comments in the original source are lost, and it's
very difficult to read (well, as compared to how *I* format my CL source
nowadays), but it's great to have in a pinch.

Opinion:  I'm getting the idea from your posts that you're not a programmer
experienced on the AS/400.  Quite frankly, if you don't know what you're doing
in CL, you may be setting your company up for a disaster fiddling with your
backup.  Can your company survive not having a complete backup if something
happens to your system?  If you say yes, you must be also able to say that you
have tested your backups to verify that they are complete.  Why not just do a
SAVE 21 and be safe with that?  Having said all that, most AS/400 shops I've
seen have never tested their backups in a DR situation, mine included.  Our
company has been starting to get aggressive in this area and I expect that we
will soon be asked to test our DR strategy.

- Dan
Dan Bale says "BAN DALE!"
IT - AS/400
Handleman Company
248-362-4400  Ext. 4952
D.Bale@Handleman.com
  Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur.
  (Whatever is said in Latin seems profound.)

-------------------------- Original Message --------------------------
Hi Mid-Range,

    Thanks for all the excellent responses about backing up and objects
missing..
    Please bear with me while I work on the followup
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     The save is in the job scheduler, but I have some problems cause seems
only the compiled
pgm was kept for the CL, it looks like.. (is there some sought of
cross-library search for a source name..
.. one fella said DSPOBJ but that didn't work..... assistance here ?...
poked around a few CMD
menus but didn't find such a thing.. a little raw on looking for CMD's)...
assume the source would
be in a QCLSRC file .. ? ...if saved..

    I may end up taking the save out of of job scheduler for the time being
and maybe even just putting it in OCL
for the time being .. either way I may want to use a save that allows file
sharing as I don't want the
pain of killing user application jobs, varying off,etc .. unless there is a
simple way to do that.....

     (I am really still non-functional on CL :-) ... and this overnight
stuff alone is not sufficient reason to
spend a lot of time on it....

    Now some followup questions ..

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
Phil
Direct the output to a file. .....

Schmuel (will do, thanks for any CL save)
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Claire
And the AS/400 doesn't tell you when it skips objects during backup, unlike
the System 36. You could do object precheck, or look at the joblog, however
the real issue is probably making sure all jobs are ended before the backup
starts.

Schmuel
(see below for the first part, I wonder if you agree with Jeff)
agree that the big issue is how to make sure the save is complete...

well i was just told by a compatriot that there is a AS/400 CMD  allows
file sharing..
that might resolve this problem.. to find the save and put that parameter
in....
.. I can probably find it thru the menus, but help here is always
appreciated...

the alternative for the QS36F Save file would be to use the old SAVE
 individual
files command (either by hand or by a utility) from OCL, that allows shared
mode ...
  even if I end up saving the data files twice in the same night ..
(once in AS/400 full save and once in OCL mode)

.. that leads to another question, other than my program libraries
and QS36F what other libs would be significant (only special activity is
 Domino
doing light email and nothing else...) .... btw we have a 170  Rel 4.4.
Is this a sensible question to ask.. why repetitively back up all the
non-dynamic stuff
.. I think our 2.5 gig tape is ok for now, but ultimately that might be a
space
question as well ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jeff.
I beg to differ. I have never run a backup but that OS/400 has told me
each and every object that was not saved. Escape messages are sent. <snip>

Schmuel

Understood, thanks..., tho my problem is not really knowing what was not saved
(because of shared usage skipping over it seems) but doing a save where I KNOW
that the data files are saved..   Thanks for the extra insight
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Chuck
If you find that objects are "missing" from your tape I suggest checking the
job log of the backup job. It is most likely that the objects were in use
when the save was performed and they were not saved. If your backup job
does not create a job log I would suggest changing the logging level of the
job to (4 00 *SECLVL). I can't tell you where to make this change w/o
knowing how the backup job is submitted (IBM job scheduler, manaully, etc.)
I personally have never seen an IBM save skip objects unless they were in use.

Schmuel .. ok.. got it :-) and agreed.. probably somebody left an inquiry
program up that
night or something.... we never knew that that was unkosher, of course the
folks
who set up the CL overnight also Y2K'd inaccurately tons of date fields
that never
needed to be touched .. :-)  for which they received mucho denaro..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Thank you Buck and Al Barsa, too.. thanks Al also for the phone help and the
Toolkit info.. made some headway after tawkin to ya...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Alister Wm Macintyre
I save S/36 objects to one tape from within S/36 on OS/400 because even
though save-all 400 supposedly saves all, some S/36 objects are not valid
OS/400 objects & I am a bit paranoid about that.

Schmuel
Hmmm.. now that is interesting.. and if you could expound more fully as
to the type of objects or why that is, I would appreciate...

I am seriously considering OCL'ing my save, using SAVE OCL for QS36F
... do you save some other AS/400 libraries from within OCL using CL commands
 ?
info on your modus operandi greatly appreciated.. (I have no problem using
WAIT command and OCL to emulate a scheduler)

Alister
There is a manual specific to people who doing both SSP & OS/400 stuff which
has nice charts like <snip> There is also a slim manual for ordinary users

Schmuel
And these manuals would be available from ? my local IBM office .. ?
It seems we do have the original manuals with the system ..
I have one 3rd party book with some cross-reference info, but it is sorta
rudimentary

Alister
We no longer need this because we have menu options with WRKSBMJOB & WRKSPLF
& etc. wrapped up so user takes menu option to see what is status of their
jobs & why the printer is not doing their reports etc. <snip>

Schmuel
Ahh..  .. could use some CL savvy to do same.. or a nice little library of
such commands...
(another words.. you set up a little utility menu for the user that is a
little more helpful
than simply the raw op system ..?)

Alister
On OS/400 command line GO SAVE and GO Backup takes you to a lot of stuff ...
Go Backup is not advised any more ... GO RESTORE options should match menu
item for menu item what is on GO SAVE.

K.

Alister
There is a free IBM wall poster that charts what is in each GO SAVE option.

Schmuel
Kewl.. hmmm.. are we registered with IBM, current .. have to check..
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Thanks again to everybody :-)




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