Lou Dobbs has put out some books too.  Not just our job field, but all American 
jobs are under attack.  If it isn't outsourcing, it is laying off people who 
make $6/hour for the illegals huddled at home depot, for $.06/hour.  

And don't bother saying that this is a "racist" statement. It isn't. It is the 
truth. Since our president says there are jobs no one will do, even a certain 
ethnic minority, which I found very offensive.  

Hasn't history showed that when the middle class dissolves into a two class 
system, the elite rich and everyone else, that soon the rich are on the pointy 
end of spears and their wealth redistributed?  Sounds like the breeding grounds 
of communism and socialism.  

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-jobs-bounces+sking=gbsio.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-jobs-bounces+sking=gbsio.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
lonniek4@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:32 AM
To: Vinod P; MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: re: Midrange Jobs National Discussion


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Just to put my two cent in.  There is a book out that is a good heads up for 
reading.  "That the World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman.  It has some interesting 
views on the job market for IT in the us.

Lonnie Kendall

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Vinod P" <pvinodr@xxxxxxxxxxx> 

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list. 


I was on the mid-range till 2000...saw the gigs were getting rare & far 
flunged. As we do some testing on the AS/400, especially in a small shop, we 
ran the queries besides unit testing & int testing. So, thought, testing 
isn't bad...picked up a tool for test automation...moved onto testing...not 
a bad decision in terms of employment/opportunities...every 
platform/software needs testing. Regarding job satisfaction for a programmer 
to move to testing...well, it was a matter of having the bread on the table. 
And, if one works on it, there is room to grow. 
Coming to laziness, yes, when I moved into testing...the idea was to have 
this as a stop gap arrangement & pickup Java...well, did understand the OOP, 
but, did not go further. Now, that I see the Java market doing 
good...repenting a bit. 

Some tips for anyone wanting to move on (my reading of the market): 
1]Java. 
2]Dot Net...rates may not be as much as Java, but the learning curve is less 
too. 
3]ERP: SAP, Oracle Apps, MS-Dynamics 
4]Tools: BI, Data Mining, Load Testing, etc. These are good...not a huge 
learning curve & the rates are decent enough. 
Rgds, 
Vinod 


----Original Message Follows---- 
From: "Timothy A. Grove" 
To: MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: re: Midrange Jobs National Discussion 
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:23:39 -0500 

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I've tried to stay out of this argument, but I can't . 

I was unemployed for nearly 2 years. There were NO AS400 jobs for 
the majority of that time. 
There were a TON of MS .NET jobs. 

2 things: 

1. I started my own business when I was unemployed (which further 
depleted my limited cash). I am building this business, so that I 
won't be at the mercy of an employer again. 

2. I am learning .NET on my own (which is very slow and not very good 
for learning HOW it is used in business). This is so that when the 
AS400 market totally dies (with the machine, since IBM doesn't market 
it except through it's VARS), I'll have the ability to still work as a 
coder. 

My situation is this: 

I DID find a permanent job a year and a half ago. It is in 
healthcare, and I am doing everything to please them so I won't get 
fired. I am making 10,000 less than I was when I was working last, 
and 15,000 less than what I made at the top of my career. (50,000 
less than what I was making as a consultant, but now, the going rate 
for AS400 programmer is $25/hr instead of the $60/Hr I was charging 
IF you can find a consulting gig) The drop in rates for consulting 
is DIRECTLY related to overseas outsourcing. Also, the hypocrites 
will not let an AMERICAN consultant work remotely, but freely give 
that access to overseas programmers, but don't get me started on that..... 

My business just moved into the black. In only 3 years. It is in no 
way able to replace my income from my job, but in another 3 to 5 
years? That's my goal. 

.NET is slow going, mainly because of my lack of time to devote to 
it. Once I am able to learn it, I can add .NET programming to my 
company's services. Also, I can create a program to sell, or a web 
portal, etc. 

So, what made me respond? I wouldn't call myself lazy. There were 
NO opportunities for AS400 programmers. I have read the writing on 
the wall, and am moving on to other technologies, and positioning 
myself to be independant someday. 

At 11:50 AM 1/28/2007, you wrote: 
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Sorry, but I find that to be the biggest bunch of bull I've heard in a 
long time. 

The lack of adequate employment is more based on the employees 
unwillingness to learn new things than the fact that jobs have been 



First, I do not think that laziness from applicants and the absence of 
opportunities are the same thing, are they? So - I agree with you- we 
have opportunities that Ken was not aware of! 
I think Ken was speaking of volume/numbers and systemic declining 
prosperity for folks in the industry he is in. Is my read on this 
correct? 

Now, about the laziness: Simply - your correct - everyone has seen 
this. As a nation we are bloody spoiled rotten. The wake-up call is 
upon us. 

But is poor preperation the REASON for off-shoring - out-sourcing? 
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Timothy A. Grove 
Home: 574-233-2893 
Cell: 574-286-5929 
mailto:tagrove@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
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