Re: [IBMiOSS] Collaboration discussion

Thanks for the reply, that gives me/us more visibility. I've only recently
met Jeff Carey so I know little about him. Jeff making decisions
concerning the things here (OSS collab tools for IBM i) would be like a CEO
picking a programming language instead of the IT manager and developers - a
lot more risky. That's not a slam against Jeff, just not the role he
should be playing (unless he's a closet open source personality that we've
not seen).

I agree on the "companies come and go" commentary and that COMMON has
staying power. I think COMMON's commitment to open source is very evident
in the fact they're dedicating entire conferences to the subject - says a
lot. That and the proliferation of open source topics at the annual
conferences - love it.

For the most part I don't really care who/what/where things are done, I
just know what will and won't work based on past experience. Tangible
examples are in order. Both you and I offer open source on our websites.
My source has always been free to contribute back to, but in 14yrs time
(since I first released RPGMail) I've maybe received two or three changes.
Why? Because I didn't have it in a form that made it easy to
collaborate/contribute. GitHub/Bitbucket changed *everything*. There is
significantly more IBM i collaboration going on with GitHub/Bitbucket than
5yrs ago. We should hop on that bandwagon.

This is why I think COMMON hosting a custom wiki/forum is doomed to
constantly be behind**. We have free SaaS tools
(Github/Bitbucket/Gitter/Slack/Ryver/midrange.com/googlegroups) yet COMMON
deems to build/host/port their own. That's what has me scratching my head
(and somewhat frustrated knowing a portion of my membership dues go to
that).

**It's why YiPs is behind. Why did COMMON adopt the awesome sched.org?
Because it made sense, as does the adoption of existing SaaS for open
source collaboration/aggregation.

The kicker: COMMON trying to implement SaaS solutions that already exist
has prohibited/delayed the one thing we actually lack: a regular conference
call.

That is beginning to fragment a bit with some projects landing elsewhere

(not sure why but that is how things evolve).

I am one of the primary individuals migrating things away from YiPs. Why?
Because it doesn't facilitate what the various projects actually need:
organized collaboration where anyone can contribute, all while having
complete transparency. This was a decision by IBM that I am helping to
facilitate. I wholeheartedly agree with the decision because, again, it
opens wide the gates for true collaboration and transparency. A good
example is the recently migrated python-itoolkit project(n1). What's cool
is now the entire community can see IBM and other Python community leaders
debating changes in the open(n2). The same is true for the ibmichroot(n3),
RelicPackageManager(n4), xmlservice-rpg(n5), vlang-rpg(n6),
ruby-itoolkit(n7), PHP iToolkit(n8), and a host of others. Again, this is
the bandwagon we must get on if we're to be successful in open source
engagement (code/collaboration/documentation), not creating our own new
path.

n1 - https://bitbucket.org/litmis/python-itoolkit
n2 -
https://bitbucket.org/litmis/python-itoolkit/issues?status=new&status=open
n3 - https://bitbucket.org/litmis/ibmichroot/issues?status=new&status=open
n4 - https://github.com/Club-Seiden/RelicPackageManager
n5 -
https://bitbucket.org/inext/xmlservice-rpg/issues?status=new&status=open
n6 - https://bitbucket.org/inext/vlang-rpg
n7 - https://bitbucket.org/litmis/ruby-itoolkit
n8 - https://github.com/zendtech/IbmiToolkit

In case my recommendation to COMMON got lost in the above paragraphs, I
would recommend COMMON *not* do their own hosted forum/wiki. Instead it
would be better for COMMON to point at/aggregate(n9) all the things going
on. Become the destination to learn what's going on and where. This is
essentially what a conference is, or at a smaller level a presentation - a
bunch of information summarized down into something people are willing to
pay a lot of money for(hint hint).

n9 - An example of aggregation, with history. Many are already
contributing: https://bitbucket.org/ibmi/opensource/wiki/Home


Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i


On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Pete Helgren <pete@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I am not on the Common board of directors and I do not speak for Common,
only Jeff Carey, current president, can do that.

Here is what I believe has been communicated to me and, btw, I am NOT
saying that Common has to have ownership of this thing but I will say the
one advantage of having an organization like Common in the middle is
because people come and go, and companies come and go, and communities ebb
and flow but Common has been around for 60 years while I cannot say that
for all the companies that have been in and out of the midrange space.
Midrange.com is a bit of an odd duck in this regard in that the community
has very nicely sustained this with David's oversight. But when David
moves on, what then? Probably someone will graciously host and maintain
the site but there is always risk. Common is not an eternal organization
and it could morph into something that sidelines IBM i and OSS, but right
now, Common has embraced OSS, IBM has embraced OSS we have a community
building around it and Common wants to support the effort with no strings
attached. No paywall for community content. No requirement of membership.
Just an offer to host a central place for community content, whatever form
it takes. Will there be paywalled content in the future? My guess is
there will be events that focus on OSS that will be fee based. But
community contributed stuff will always be free.

That said:

1) I put up some pages at www.common.org/open-source to get us
started. Common has a broader web strategy that they are in the middle of
implementing and the broader strategy will include a forum and a wiki.
Just like the risk Bill Gravelle is taking starting the LinkedIn Group and
the Ryver forum, another site at common.org in addition all the others
out there may not "stick". Maybe there will never be a central place where
all things IBM i OSS can be found. But hope that there can be. So I chose
to go with common.org. It may be a mistake to locate content there
because some folks have some "baggage" when it comes to Common and
therefore may not even visit the site, but the organization isn't going
away any time soon and so the location has *some* permanence.

2) Common and idevcloud.com partnered in keeping the YiPS site going
which has been a repository for OSS/PASE projects. That is beginning to
fragment a bit with some projects landing elsewhere (not sure why but that
is how things evolve). I hope to re-skin the site while retaining all the
current links (the underlying framework is pretty old). At some point, I
don't know when, my guess is a more permanent home will be found. I'd like
that home to be common.org or maybe even an IBM i OSS foundation that can
maintain a site. Who knows? For now the plan is to continue to support
the YiPS site.

3) Common as agreed to fund an open source project if necessary to get
some initial traction. Not sure what it will be or how much they are
willing to fund but they are will to put some skin the game. I like that
idea.

4) We hope to get a core group of folks who can commit to a regular
conference call. We need to keep it a manageable size and maybe that will
morph into a webcast with a conversational core and a chat option for folks
to ask questions or make suggestions. Common is willing to sponsor this as
well.

I REALLY like the OSS dashboard idea. I am not sure how to do it and it
would be a great opportunity to use many different technologies, all on IBM
i, to do it but we'll see how this evolves. So, in short, I see Common as
being a good place to "center" stuff instead of starting yet another web
presence. In reality, if there was a sustained community funded and more
or less permanent organization framework that would continue this effort, a
la an Apache-like organization, I would be happy to have stuff live there.
But Common s about the best place I can think of for now. The community
will vote with its fingertips: If they frequent the site and find it
useful, great. If we each end up with our own fiefdoms and everyone is OK
with that, so be it.


Pete Helgren
www.petesworkshop.com
GIAC Secure Software Programmer-Java
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/petehelgren
Twitter - Sys_i_Geek IBM_i_Geek

On 6/24/2016 10:23 AM, Aaron Bartell wrote:

Hi Pete,

I wonder if you could convey what you'd like to see, exactly - especially
if you can comment on COMMON's current stance. I know we've had
conversations in private months ago, but I'm curious to know where things
stand today. I am asking because I'd like to support where ever I can.
My
fear is that our community will try to control things instead of letting
things have organic success (which is why, btw, midrange.com is so
successful, imo).



Aaron Bartell
litmis.com - Services for open source on IBM i

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