RE: IBM Secret (Was Copy to New AS400 via TCP) -- MIDRANGE-L

Colin,
        You nailed the problem in the last two paragraphs.  Many companies feel 
cheated after they have gone to the time and expense to train an employee 
only to have them leave for more $$$.
        I have also come across the perception among some companies that "all 
this 
programming will stop eventually and we can make better use of the money."

Eric Kempter
CommAir Mechanical Services, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From:   Colin Williams [SMTP:Williamsc@technocrats.co.uk]
Sent:   Monday, May 10, 1999 1:12 AM
To:     'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'
Subject:        RE: IBM Secret (Was Copy to New AS400 via TCP)

This is something I have never understood. Many companies seem to want
to either:

1)      Get very experienced permanent people in

2)      If they can't find them, get a contractor in and pay them a
fortune

Why are these companies so short sighted. The reason that there is
always this skills shortage we are always hearing about is
because most companies can't be bothered to train new people, they just
want to chase round the same pool of experienced people.

As you say, they could easily take on a trainee, send them on a two or
three month RPG training course, then let them shadow someone for 4 - 6
months. But you've got to pay them the going rate at the end of it, or
they will leave, of course!

I know of various companies that takes on graduates every year as
trainee programmers, train them up, but at the end of it they pay them
rubbish salaries, so at the end of their first year, 75% of them leave
for better pay.

-----Original Message-----
From: boothm@ibm.net [mailto:boothm@ibm.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 4:46 AM
To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject: Re: IBM Secret (Was Copy to New AS400 via TCP)


Some of the places I go haven't been able to hire the level of help they
want so they turn to contractors at high rates to do trivial jobs.
They've been doing this for 5 or more years.

I suggest sometimes that they hire a couple of promising but not skilled
people and bring them in and take the time needed to teach them.  They
could work as shadows to trained staff for 6 or 8 months, and they could
do trivial work.  In a surprisingly short time they'd have useful
programmers.  Usually the answer is "As soon as we train them they
leave."
I drop the conversation there because what they don't say is they have
no
intention of paying decent wages to someone they've trained in-house.
It's too bad too, because there's a lot of home-grown programmers out
there that are excellent.


In <3734F88D.2D5A7905@datadesigninc.com>, on 05/08/99
   at 09:53 PM, nina jones <ddi@datadesigninc.com> said:

>> There's a BIG difference between wanting to hire a intern that hardly
>> knows what a editor is and needing to hire people that know what
they're
>> doign and can be productive from the get go...


>for sure.  notice i said 'good'!  you can either get a diamond, a lump
of
>coal, or anything in between.

>we'd be looking for someone that had training, showed aptitude, and
>interest.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
boothm@ibm.net
Booth Martin
-----------------------------------------------------------

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
david@midrange.com
+---
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: 
david@midrange.com
+---
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---