Re: Ruby On Rails on the iSeries -- WEB400

Joe--

Sounds like we are on the same page in many ways. A couple ofextensions...

1. I like Ruby. As far as I can tell, it's a pretty well designedexampleof a dynamically typed language: closer to Smalltalk (which Iliked, BTW)
than most other languages.

agree, though haven't yet gotten as deeply into Ruby as Rails, seenice touches all the time

2. I like Rails. It's a good implementation of what it tries todo: make
programming easy by relying on convention.

here think there's a bit more going on - people keep saying what it'strying to do is "make programming easy" and don't think that's thewhole story unless "while providing for complexity by allowingextension" and "while not shirking the big issues which always comeup" are added

it's far from easy to wrap your head around something new that doesthings in different ways from what you've used before, especially ifthat "while not shirking the big issues" thing is in there, so ifyou're going to do it, there had better be some depth and lucidreasons for the choices which have been made, and with Rails amfinding that's there, as long as you're willing to learn about it

My problems are this: neither one of these things (dynamically typed
scripting languages or programming by convention) are proven toactuallywork in enterprise level projects, whereas other environments (RPG,J2EE,even VB/ASP) have proven track records. So to talk about Ruby orRoR as atechnology that is going to supplant others is, to my mind, just alittle
irresponsible.


not thinking he said it would supplant them, just (from your quote...)

 People are  beginning to wonder if Rails will throw J2EE and .aspx
development on their respective ears. I agree that's prettyimaginative.
How could a few young  programmers, collaborating in an open-source
environment, challenge some of the most powerful corporations onearth?


many ways to interpret "...on their respective ears."

also see "I agree that's pretty imaginative."

it's ramped up quickly, and a lot of "cool kid" energy is going intoit that might have been channeled into other platforms - the sense ofcommunity is strong, for a local flavor see...


http://ruby.meetup.com/cities/us/il/oak_brook/?chapter=closed

And me personally, I have no use for yet another tool to do quickan dirtyprogramming, no matter how easy it is. Unless it is proven to workin anenterprise environment it's not something I'm going to use much.And even
then, if the people behind the project are just as important as the
technology itself.

rails is very far from Q&D, while it is rapid and very structured,it's also very definitely clean and DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself)

I only have to point to the vast number of Struts applications thatare nowbehind the technology curve to indicate how an open sourcetechnology, nomatter how well received by the community, can just as quicklywither anddie when there is a schism among the developers and someoneinfluential
jumps ship.

this is a risk in very early stages with any technology, believerails has been past this in its evolution for some time, is gatheringmomentum for many valid reasons


thx & hth,

--Jerome

From: Jerome Hughes

Joe--

(wrote this last night, but held off sending it... also not looking
for a debate, but perhaps can present another view, my friend...)



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