Re: Ruby On Rails on the iSeries

A conscious incompetent question...  Does JSP Model II talk to any other
language on the i5... on other platforms?
If so, would you point me to documentation on JSP Model II and EGL?   


Did I understand correctly that EGL is an outgrowth of IBM's CSP?

Thanks,

Dave Odom

joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 8/16/2006 13:43:11 >>>

I don't want to really get into a debate here, but I do have to answer
a few
of these points.

Take the time to work with Rails and you'll find that it, like many
other
frameworks, is simply a fast way to do certain things.  And while some
of
the concepts may seem cool at first, I find the conventions to
eventually be
too restrictive for enterprise programming.  For example, you need to
remember to name your tables plurally.  A reference to another table is
the
SINGULAR of that table name with "_id" concatenated.  You don't HAVE
to
follow this convention, but you lose some benefits if you don't.

It has some neat features, and it is more complete than some of the
other
frameworks, but the exact same components exist for many other
languages,
such as Perl.  The "programming by convention" is perhaps a nicety for
people who don't like to type, but I've never been particularly
enamored by
something that magically figures out code based on naming conventions;
inevitably I need to break the naming convention and bad things
happen.

Moving on, your bit about EGL being heavy is just silly.  WDSC is
certainly
heavy, but that's because it's a full-fledged IDE.  Ruby on Rails, for
example, is a primarily text-based scripting environment.  Try
renaming
something in Ruby and see if it automatically fixes every reference.

EGL, on the other hand, is about as light a framework as I've seen. 
You
define data elements with as much (or as little) metadata as you want,
group
those data elements into records, and then use the records to build
your UI
and your database access.  Specify something as a key field in a record
and
it is used as a key in database access and is protected in the UI when
updating a record.  It's simple, clean and really fast.

I'd also like to dispel some of your WDSC FUD.  Yes, WDSC updates are
large.
As are iSeries cumes.  That's because they're large products, and if a
monthly download of a GB is too much for you, then you ought to find
another
platform.  Also, you can download the updates and then apply them
later, so
you don't have to "worry about the network going down".  Finally, it's
been
a long time since a WDSC update destabilized my workbench... and I do a
LOT
of work with WDSC.

When is the last time you saw someone do an update that actually broke
their
working environment?

Anyway, enough of this.  There's nothing wrong with Ruby.  Or Tapestry,
or
Turbine and Velocity, or Zope, or Laszlo, or any of a number of other
frameworks out there.  Me, I prefer an environment that will allow me
to
quickly build a thin framework that will in turn access RPG, and JSP
Model
II is the answer for that.

The question is whether EGL provides the productivity for JSP Model II
that
Visual Studio provides for .NET, and my initial take on it is that it
is
headed in the right direction.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

[mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Nathan Andelin
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:05 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Ruby On Rails on the iSeries

Rails offers a lot  of time savers.  Scripts for generating default
directory structures for  applications.  Scripts for generating basic

CRUD

applications.  Scripts for  generating Model/View/Controller source

files.

Built-in components that  generate HTML, which can be used in

addition to

a WYSIWYG editor, or as an  alternative.  Built-in  components which

are

just extensions of base classes, reducing the programmer  code to a
minimum.  A framework that automatically performs mapping between

the

database and the screen, and visa versa, based on naming conventions

is  a

powerful concept.

 Interpretive  runtime environments are seductively appealing in the

first

place.  There's no  compile, build, or deployment steps.  You can
immediately see the results of  your work on the screen, or error

messages

generated by the runtime  environment.  It probably can't be beat

for

prototyping and rapid application  development, so long as the
applications are essentially adaptations  of supported models.

 Tools like WDSC  and EGL are HEAVY, in comparison.  Downloading

updates

to WDSC are an overnight  proposition.  You hope the network doesn't

go

down in the mean time.  The  development and deployment environments

are

so massive that you hope an update  won't destabilize your machine.

If Rails is simple, and it works, then it's probably destined to

attract

the type of people, and the type of loyalty, that's typical in the

iSeries

community.