RE: [WEB400] More about struts

["Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: David Morris
> 
> We are talking about different things. Struts is MVC. JSP, JSTL,
> JSF, etc. are just the V. If you don't use something like Struts,
> you will never be able to switch the view. I bet your PBD tool
> does not work with program defined display files. For the same
> reasons, you are better off using Struts and JSTL tags over
> scriptlets or pure HTML.

What do you mean by "switching the view"?  Really, I'm not saying
anything more than the fact that Struts is dying and JSF/JSTL is the new
kid in town, and that if you sit on the bleeding edge, that sort of
thing is going to happen.

You seem dead-set on talking about PBD.  I am talking about web
application development in general.  It's my contention that pure JSP
Model II is all you need - Struts is simply extra overhead.  What PBD
does is not an issue.  PBD is a code generator - it can generate Struts
code just as easily as JSP Model II.  It's just that I like to keep
things simple.


> I can't afford to stop development and wait for JSF.

Ah, here's my point... I don't HAVE to wait for JSF!  Because I don't
need it!  I'm still trying to figure out what you gain from Struts other
than a different syntax.


> My ideal framework would implement MVC as a services
> interface over a platform independent database layer (like
> Hibernate provides).

Whatever you like, David.  I don't need an "independent database layer".
I'm not looking to move my customers off the iSeries.  So I like RPG and
JSP Model II.  Fast and blindingly simple.  No compatibility issues, and
code I wrote three years ago still works today.  The trick is to code
the logic in your servlets and beans, not in your UI.


> If you are set on using scriptlets, you might look at:
> http://www.day.com/en/product/productline/unify/ide/dnlogin.html
> I don't know if it is any good but I do know that debugging scriptlets
> is a huge pain.

I guess it depends on your tools.  In WDSC setting a breakpoint in a
scriptlet is as simple as double-clicking on the line.

Anyway, you have your own development methodology, and I'm not saying
it's wrong.  I'm just saying it's not the same as mine, and mine is just
as valid as yours.  From a standpoint of stability over the long term,
I'd say mine is better.  For writing lots of code quickly, I'd say yours
is better.  It just depends on your goals.

Joe