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Hi Vern,
That was my thought, too, but “named indicator” didn’t show up in a search of the reference manual. It’s referenced in articles like this http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/ibmi/developer/rpg/iSeries-EXTRA--Goodbye,-Indicators!/?page=2 which show how to overlay the indicator data structure from the workstation file. I thought I’d check for my own clarification. If that’s how the community views the term “named indicator” as any named field with data type IND or N, I certainly concede.
It’s unfortunate that the data type is IND instead of BOOLEAN in free format since all the languages that I’ve run across refer it as Boolean. (I started with RPG II on S/32, so I’ve been around the block with indicators.) I’m sure that new talent will grasp indicator as another name for Boolean. They’re young and flexible; not rigid like us dinosaurs. It just seems a bit awkward with regard to “modern” languages.
Thanks,
Matt
From: Vernon Hamberg<mailto:vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:55 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for System i & iSeries<mailto:wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Poll of users of live ILE RPG outline view
Hi Matthew
I believe an N data type means indicator - and in fully free form, we
use IND for these - so that's how we get named indicators.
Did I miss something?
Vern
On 4/12/2016 7:50 AM, Matthew Qualls wrote:
What is a named indicator? I googled it and found that it was “renaming” the *INnn with a more meaningful name.--
I would expect that a standalone field with data type of N would not show up in the indicator list. That just a Boolean field and not a true indicator.
From: Vernon Hamberg<mailto:vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:35 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for System i & iSeries<mailto:wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Poll of users of live ILE RPG outline view
Hi Paul
Just wondering about other languages, such as VB or C/C++ - I've worked
with VB but don't remember whether Visual Studio, for example, has a
thing like the outline. Maybe the better place to look is an outline for
Java in Eclipse.
Anyhow, do any of these others have a separate section for booleans - no
one else uses the term "indidators".
Personally I prefer seeing the *IN indicators in a separate place - they
are most often tied to whether to display in reverse image or the like,
not as control switches in my code. These *IN things tend to be in a
category unique to IBM i, seems to me.
OTOH, named indicators are things I use to control the flow, and I would
like those in the common list of variables, which I suspect is similar
to what is done with other languages in other IDEs. I might be wrong on
that suspicion, of course.
A grey area for me is INDARA. Also putting names on the *IN indicators,
which I think I'd still like in the indicator separate list.
Or maybe both - I just noticed that a parameter in a procedure is in the
Parameters section and also in the Local resources (?) section in the
outline.
Regards
Vern
On 4/12/2016 7:12 AM, paultherrien wrote:
I would like to make one point about indicators/booleans vs. data variables.--
Booleans variables have meanings in that they are usually logic switches that
affect the way my program operates while regular variables such as itemPrice or
OnHandQty are just values to be worked on. I prefer that indicators/booleans be
grouped separately from data variables.
On April 11, 2016 at 9:34 PM Mitch Gallman <qtemp@xxxxxxx> wrote:Paul Therrien
1b2b
On Monday, April 11, 2016 5:24 PM, Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 4/11/2016 1:59 PM, Edmund Reinhardt wrote:
So far the sense I am getting (from the comments) is that people have theThis would be useful to me because I work in very long lived code :-)
following requirements
i) When they edit code with numeric indicators they would like to see
- all of the uses of the same indicator whether it is reference by number
or name
So for the following code
dcl-f file workstn indds(myinds);
dcl-ds myinds;
invokeHelp POS(1);
exitNow POS(3);
end-ds;
*in(01)=*off;
exfmt panel;
if (*in01)
showHelp(invokeHelp);
end-if
We could show the following in the indicators section - all pre-defined
indicators sorted alphabetically and all aliases shown on the line that is
referencing it
- Indicators
- 01
3 - invokeHelp
6 - *IN(01)
8 - *IN01
9 - invokeHelp
-03
4 - exitNow
Imagine a program written in 1980 or so, with typical left hand
indicators, work fields defined in calcs on the fly; the works. When I
work on one of these, I tend to define a named boolean in place of the
indicators this particular section uses. That is, I don't spend the
hours and days it would take to convert /all/ numbered indicators to
booleans, I only touch the ones I must. So, for example, I might be in
a section of code where I need to do some work:
C 01 DO
C MOVE ODIST ADIST 5
C ADIST SETLL MSTloc
*
C *IN80 DOUEQ *ON
C ADIST READE MSTloc 80
*
C *IN80 IFEQ *OFF
C MOVE LOCNO DISTO 5 0
And here, I want to use a reasonable name for indicator 80, something
like noMoreDistricts. So I create the indicator overlay structure, add
POS(80) and my code becomes free and more readable. But elsewhere, in
other subroutines, the hard indicator number 80 is still used. I'm not
needing to change any of those, so I'll leave them alone.
Time passes, and there's a glitch; something's resetting indicator 80
when it shouldn't. If the Outline View can show me all of the places
where that happens - numbered or named - then that will make my life
that much simpler.
ii) Other people would like to consider all declarations as 1 easilyI'm OK with this, because... well, because I don't understand why there
searchable list, sorted by occurrence in the source (merge together data
structures, fields, constants, indicators, maybe even files)
are Outline View sections in the first place. </red face> I never
browse the Outline View looking for something, and then from there click
to go to the editor. It's /always/ the other way round: I'm looking at
something in the editor and wonder where else this bit is twiddled.
What I'd like to see is a 'Link to Editor' in the Outline View similar
to the one in the Remote Systems View. So I can click on
noMoreDistricts and the Outline View will show me all the places
indicator 80 is used.
What I am understanding is that pre-defined indicators merit a differentIf I had access to the compiler's tokeniser, this is the very first
section because they are provided by the compiler and can be aliased in
these ways (and are really hard to find lexically)
thing I'd be extracting from it. Left hand indicators are an
unfortunate part of my life; I could easily filter on 80 as a 'name' but
for one thing: the filter is really naïve. It finds 'entries' with a
line number of 280, it finds arrays which are DIM(80), it finds field
names with 80 anywhere in them like MSG80.
So... today, a separate section for indicators is sort of necessary
because there's no simple way to either search for them, nor filter them
- even in the Outline View.
Do people really want a lot of different preferences that they may neverWell, as a novice-ish Excel user, I can tell you that mostly, I don't
discover and then have to figure out whether they are useful and might only
be there because of the historical evolution of the product? (Just doesn't
feel clean and easy to learn).
look at, or try to figure out Excel's many preferences. Word, The Gimp,
and even Firefox all have many preferences that I never bother with and
I don't feel my learning is inhibited because of that. On the contrary;
I think that preferences are something the power user is interested in
and really wants to have in order to be... well, empowered.
It would be nice if we had options that helped people accomplishFor me, productivity is the ability to think without the editor loading
certain tasks easier, so they measurably improve productivity.
down my cognitive processes. Preferences are a one-time cognitive load.
Keyboard shortcuts are an 'every minute' load until they become muscle
memory, which is why so many programmers avoid using them.
Another thing I am wondering, is there a use for an I Specs and O SpecsfindText oqsy generally works for me :-) Although findText columns 6 6
entry in the outline view to take people to those sections of the code?
O will work if I need to find program described file output, blech.
--
--buck
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