Re: RPG IV release levels and complexity -- RPG400-L

Bob cozzi wrote:

Is it me or is it just too difficult to track all the different subtle
enhancements to the RPG IV compiler on every new release.
I’m consulting at a shop that is on V5R1 and another that is on V5R2.  Yet
most people are still on V4Rx.
In reading articles and going to training I’m finding all of the developers essentially abandoning RPG IV enhancements because they can never relay on their release being the one on which the feature is offered.
Three contemporary examples (but things like this happen literally every day
as we move this shop to RPG IV):
Someone is all hot to use the new UPDATE %FIELDS() capability to replace and
EXCEPT opcode with Output specs… They spent ½ day trying to get that to
work. Oops, sorry, that feature is in V5.2 not V5.1 :-(
Another one was trying to use qualified data structures. They’re at V5.1 so
that’s great… but then when trying to take advantage of the Data Structures
as Arrays… the get compiler errors… Oops sorry, that’s a V5.2 feature, not
V5.1.
Another one happened when on a V4R5 machine they tried to use qualified data structures. Once again… Oops, that a V5.1 feature.

There are but a very few of the daily occurrences going on in the shops where I’m consulting.
Granted many people on this list don’t have these problems because they try
to stay in touch with the latest and greatest, but…
Is this a widespread issue or is it just me? I mean a few months ago I advocated that IBM either stop enhancing RPG IV on every release and only do it once per Version. That way at least if you’re on V5, you have the latest and greatest compiler features, or you can upgrade to it. As far back as the year 2000 I met with the RPG compiler manager from IBM Toronto and suggested the separate the compiler from the version and just ship Version X of RPG IV which will run on OS/400 Version Y release Z and later. For example, the ship version 2.0 of the RPG IV compiler and it runs on OS/400 Version 5.1 and later. So it would work on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. This would give everyone on V5.x (any release) the same set of features. To me this is the only solution to this dilemma.

From where I see things, a major inhibitor to getting shops to move to RPG
IV is when they set out a few recon programmers to find out if its feasible,
you want that frustration level as low as possible. The way the compiler is
today, that is just not possible.
And forget that argument about why it can’t be done, who cares why it can’t be done. I want to know if it is I a problem for us developers or if this is an isolated situation.

I really don't know why, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents worth in this thread.

First, this "problem" is something that afflicts programmers in pretty much all languages. For example, the Python programmer who uses version 2.2 is out of luck if he wants to use the new CSV file classes, which were introduced in version 2.3. He too grumbles before he (and possibly all his clients) upgrades.

Second, the suggestion was made that enhancements should be PTF'ed to previous (and possibly unsupported) versions. Do you know what's involved in putting out a PTF? Say we have to PTF a problem back to V5R1. First, the V5R1 code needs to be changed and tested, and PTF's have to be built for V5R1, the TGTRLS(V5R1M0) compiler for V5R2, and the TGTRLS(V5R1M0) compiler for V5R3. Then, the code change has to be propogated to the V5R2 compiler and tested, and PTF's built for that and the TGTRLS(V5R2M0) compiler for V5R3. And then, the change is propogated to V5R3. In most cases, the same change is made to each version, but sometimes the problem needs to be solved differently in each version.

My point here is that if we PTF'ed enhancements, we'd be spending all our time in building PTF's with no time left over for developing the enhancements. :-/

Third, since the RPG language is very much tied to the operating system, I doubt that we could ever fully divorce the compiler from the O/S release schedule. In V5R3, at least one enhancement definitely depends on system support.

Fourth, enhancements only on version boundaries? I don't see how that would fly. Even on the current release schedules, changes don't happen fast enough for many programmers. And as far as I can tell, there really isn't any system to the planning for new versions.

Finally, in my opinion, the pace of enhancements in the past few releases has indeed been too aggressive. Not only are some (many?) RPG programmers having trouble keeping up, but we in compiler development have been bitten off more than we can chew in several cases. That, and the fact that the ILE RPG compiler code is getting rather "mature", means that I believe the pace of improvement to the language will slow down in future releases, perhaps allowing programmers the chance to catch up somewhat.

Cheers! Hans

(Sigh - I need another LOA! ;-)