Re: Visual RPG vs. Other Visual languages was ->RE: Is RPG available on any other platform ?

I am open-minded.  I think that _you_ are closed-minded to RPG.

I am learning (self-taught with 21-day books) languages like VB & Java.  I
also know COBOL (which is an acronym, spelled in all caps) and Qbasic.  I
know dBase <shudder>.  I have been using SQL for over 15 years.  And I also
believe in using the right tool for the job.

Right now I just seem to be hung up writing green-screen RPG code in a JDE
environment.  I'm making a living in my chosen field, unlike the over
500,000 programmers that got laid off last year.  It's not the _cool_ stuff.
I can't even use ILE very easily in this environment because of JDE
limitations.

If your hangup is OO vs RPG, I can assure you that you can write cr*p code
with OO languages _just_ like you can with RPG.

I was taught top-down techniques for analysis & design in college and they
have served me very well over the years.  I write _well_ structured code in
RPG that I believe is easy to read and maintain.

On the other hand, I have looked at a lot of VB code written by young
hot-shots and it is often _very_ unstructured.  It seems that structured
coding and top-down design went out the window when RAD (Rapid Application
Development) came into favor...

I think I would _always_ prefer well-structured, easy to maintain RPG code
(green-screen) over GUI spaghetti code...

Just My Opinion,

Steve Landess
Austin, Texas
(512) 423-0935

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bartell, Aaron L. (TC)" <ALBartell@taylorcorp.com>
To: <rpg400-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Visual RPG vs. Other Visual languages was ->RE: Is RPG
available on any other platform ?


> >I think you just like to stir things up....
> You are definitely right on this one.  If nobody stirs the soup then all
of
> the good stuff will be left on the bottom and everybody will be left
eating
> the stuff on the top thinking it is the best soup out there.
>
> >If you are so _down_ on RPG (which is apparent to me by the nature of
your
> postings), then _why_ do you even participate in this forum?
>
> I always hear about people wanting to use the best tool for the job.  If I
> know of a tool that can perform better than another then I will state my
> opinion and hope that people will be open minded about it.
>
> I am an RPG programmer.  I am a Java Programmer.  Heck I even know Cobol
and
> QBasic. . .  If nobody ever tells you about different options how are you
> ever going to know about them?  If I haven't been constructive in my
> statements I apologize and will try to re-word next time.
>
> Aaron Bartell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Landess [mailto:steve_landess@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:21 AM
> To: rpg400-l@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: Visual RPG vs. Other Visual languages was ->RE: Is RPG
> available on any other platform ?
>
>
> Aaron -
> If you are so _down_ on RPG (which is apparent to me by the nature of your
> postings), then _why_ do you even participate in this forum?
>
> I think you just like to stir things up....
>
> Steve Landess
> Austin, Texas
> (512) 423-0935
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bartell, Aaron L. (TC)" <ALBartell@taylorcorp.com>
> To: <rpg400-l@midrange.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:08 AM
> Subject: Visual RPG vs. Other Visual languages was ->RE: Is RPG available
on
> any other platform ?
>
>
> > >Aaron we've moved very far off topic.
> > Easy fix.  Just change the Subject.
> >
> > I can see your point of going to VARPG if your shop is entirely RPG
> > programmers with little ambition to learn a different language.
> >
> > <snip>
> > If you know other languages then use them, but for an RPG shop with
> > employees that
> > know their data already, and know their users, and know their RPGIV,
> > learning event-driven logic is a no-brainer.
> > </snip>
> >
> > I am not sure where you are going with this one, because if event driven
> is
> > a no-brainer then learn VB or VB.net. Then you gain the obvious
advantages
> > of going with a better language.  But if your RPG programmers do not
have
> > the ambition to learn a different language then I see your point.
> >
> > >They can find VB programmers of course but the diaper costs can become
> > prohibitive.
> >
> > You would be surprised what a kid out of college can pull off, given the
> > chance and the tools.  Don't look at how much somebody knows when you
hire
> > them, look at how much they can learn in a given time frame.
> >
> > >These shops can have a few inquiry applications up and running quicker
> than
> > they can find and hire a qualified Java programmer.
> >
> > The problem with this is that you are going to be hard pressed to find
> > _anyone_ well versed in the Java technologies.  That is not because Java
> is
> > near impossible to learn, but because it is growing so fast the adoption
> can
> > seem daunting.  What I have found, though, is that it is growing at a
very
> > nice rate.  Business is changing and we need toolsets to change just as
> fast
> > so we don't have to write everything from scratch.  The thing with Java
is
> > that you only need to use the functionality of the language as it
becomes
> > know to you.  I have yet to use Interfaces in Java because I don't have
a
> > real good grasp of them, but I use a lot of other nice features like
> > extending, creating my own data types, overriding, etc. . .
> >
> > >Remember, we are dealing in a reality where MIS is measured by the
speed
> > and up-time of e-mail, not ROI.
> > This is either the opinion of some narrow minded people or your company
> has
> > some serious problems with their view of IT.  Somebody in your
department
> > needs to start pounding their hand on the table a little harder to let
> upper
> > management know that IT has a place in your business.
> >
> > Aaron Bartell
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Booth Martin [mailto:Booth@MartinVT.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:43 AM
> > To: rpg400-l@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Is RPG available on any other platform ?
> >
> >
> >
> >  Aaron we've moved very far off topic.  The original issue is "Is RPG
> > available on any other platform?"  My answer is "Yes, use VARPG on
> Windows."
> >  That statement still holds.  If your language is RPG then VARPG is a
> choice
> > that is available to you.
> >
> > Discussion of other languages, etc, is for another place and time.  If
you
> > know other languages then use them, but for an RPG shop with employees
> that
> > know their data already, and know their users, and know their RPGIV,
> > learning event-driven logic is a no-brainer.
> >
> > These shops have the ability to use their team skills and put out plenty
> of
> > slick and fast Windows programs that their users will love.  These shops
> can
> > have a few inquiry applications up and running quicker than they can
find
> > and hire a qualified Java programmer.  They can find VB programmers of
> > course but the diaper costs can become prohibitive.
> >
> > Remember, we are dealing in a reality where MIS is measured by the speed
> and
> > up-time of e-mail, not ROI.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Booth Martin   http://www.MartinVT.com
> > Booth@MartinVT.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: rpg400-l@midrange.com
> > Date: Thursday, January 02, 2003 09:38:48 AM
> > To: 'rpg400-l@midrange.com'
> > Subject: RE: Is RPG available on any other platform ?
> >
> > >...The learning curve for new employees on many green screen
applications
> > is
> > >just too frustrating today.
> >
> > This is also the reason I have heard in my company. . .
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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