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  • Subject: RE: RPG IV and CF-spec "keep it IBM"
  • From: John P Carr <jpcarr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:30:37 -0400


>Buck,
>If tech savvy managers are not moving to RPG IV because they don't have
>programmers who will be able to maintain it (as suggested in several other
>posts) how will adding yet another flavor (the CF-spec) enhance the
>manager's willingness to use RPG IV? I believe it will not. It will have
the
>opposite effect, hence my dislike of introducing the CF-spec today. Perhaps
>after a few years of RPG IV code, if people want to go the 'RPG V' route,
>then sure, go ahead, but in today's world, CF-spec will kill RPG IV.
>
>But, hey I only speak from talking to thousands and thousands of RPG
>programmers, not a few dozen respondents from this mailing list (as IBM
>apparently does).
>Bob Cozzi
>http://www.RPGIV.com


Well,  lets finish off this topic and get on to something else.     

I haven't commented on the hundreds of responses to this thread
but thought I'd  give my impressions at the end here.

FIrst,   I have been writing RPG for 18 years,   It's my first language.  
I'm learning others but it's my native tongue so to speak.    I have been
involved
with its development/enhancements from Toronto and even helped IBM develop
 the RPG Certification Test. I (like Bob) see alot of programmers/shops
throughout 
the year,  (I teach for Powertech's 400school).   I say this all to let you
know,
I'm  an AS/400-RPG person thru and thru.

This thread follows (by a couple of months)  rp's   discussions as to the 
downward spirial of RPG's future.     It won't do GUI Web stuff,  It won't
ever 
run on other platforms, etc.


My question from the beginning of this discussion about free format 
spec's(I still don't believe they ran with my suggestion to call it CF)   is


 What's the goal here?   What's the business case for making such a radical
change?

Will it make coding RPG faster?  
   I really don't think so.   If you are actually keying in more than 30% of
a program's 
code,   I think you are already doing too much work.   You should be using
templates/shell 
programs(or using F15 programming. ie copy,copy paste) for most of the
routine coding.   

WIll it make RPG more likely to be learned by "Younger"  programmers?
I don't think so in the vast percentage of the cases over time.   
Most "Young" programmers won't like it no matter what you do to it. 
  "It ain't GUI,  babe and I never read about it in PC Week"  period.

Will it make RPG more readable/maintainable??
If you really believe this one,  I have some choice  property for you to
invest in.
If a person is a sloppy programmer and writes ugly code,   It don't make no 
difference Jack,  what language that programmer uses,  it's going to look
#@$%ing ugly.

I know a Free format CLP comparison isn't 100% valid, but I have seen some
beautiful CLP's 
and I have seen some really,  really - -It makes SEU throw-up - -  uggggly
CLP programs.
If you take the time to make your current RPG code readable,  You will do
the same
with the CF's.     If you don't now,  you won't with CF's either.

Will it create some interesting maintenenace issues in places where the
"inhouse" staff doesn't 
know it,  won't learn it,  and someone comes in for 6 months (ie temp help)
and writes
abunch of it and leaves?  You bet.

Where's the payback over the next 5-10 years?    I just don't know where it
would be.
It will make x% of the RPG programmers happy,  No doubt.    I really think
BTW that
80% of that X%   subscribe to lists like this one.   I also believe that
90% of the  "Unwashed"
 masses won't be affected and will not have heard about it 2 years after
it's available.
(I can just hear it 3 years from now -  "Hey !!  When the heck did they do
that???? " )

We will see CF's.   It seems like a done deal.  So the discussion is really
just academic.  
Will I use it?   Ya,  I originally wanted it just for the existing EVAL's,
DOU, IF's etc.  
I didn't think it was worth the effort to have two version OF EVERY OPCODE
WE HAVE. 
Will the shop I work in use it?   Weeeeellllll   I'm just a consultant and
they are very touchy
about changing their standards(VBFG>.  

My last questions are;  
Now That we have CF's 
Will other programmers finially like us and treat us like "Real"
programmers" ? 
Can I hold my head up high for the first time and say,    "I'm an RPG
programmer"  
Will it be taught in college Computer courses right along with Java and C ?

 Will it sell   "Tons" more AS/400's ??

And the Big question........... now that we have CF's
Can we port our code to Linux ?????

(Hey can we archive this thread and bring it back in 2005 and see how it
played out??)

Well it was fun,    Hey,  These are just thoughts folks   don't take them
serious.

Peace
Respecfully
John  Carr   





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