Re: Thoughts on VTL solutions

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.Frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com - Personal Development IBM i timeshare service.
www.iInTheCloud.com - Commercial IBM i Cloud Hosting.

On 5/9/2020 1:17 AM, Laurence Chiu wrote:

Thanks for that. A few points

1. I meant SAS drives for the SAN :-( The V5030 does not support SATA
drives

SAS, SATA, so close. :-)

2. The other vendor mentioned DUPTAP also with their VTL solution
connected to the ProtecTier. So would you connect the second VTL over FC,
and then go into BRMS and run the DUPTAP command to copy the entire
ProtecTier library to the other VTL? I should add the migration of the BRMS
backups would be a one-off exercise. Once completed production would move
to the other site and there would be no need to connect back to ProtectTier.

Correct. Effectively the transfer of the data to the new system thus reties the ProtecTier.

With BRMS the command is DUPMEDBRM which under the covers likely uses DUPTAP but the key is that not only does the data get moved to the new device but BRMS is fully aware and that's important too.

3. The SAN seemed like a good option since it meant we could use the SAN
replication feature to replicate the VTL backups to the DR site

Ahh yes. I see this and I understand why this sounds like a great idea. Another Yes is that it DOES work. :-) However what devices like the Cybernetics do for logical dedup means the amount of data that needs to be transferred is fabulously lower! They understand the stream of data coming from the system at least enough to compare it to a master (typically a SAVE 21) and then transmit only what was different. So that big history library that didn't change doesn't get sent every day even though it appears on the nightly backup tape. LOVE THAT!!

Once you watch a full nightly backup tape sync between SANS you'll go: "Ooooh, that took a long time and laid a big hurt on bandwidth!!"

4. Another VTL we were looking at LaserVault (
https://www.laservault.com/vitl-2/vitl/ ). I looked at their demo and it
looks like it's BRMS so the users would be used to that. Plus there is a
web interface. Plus thei provide software only as an option so you can run
on your own kit or even on a VM in your virtual machine farm

This sounds like a good idea and done right I think it could be. However it will take proper design so that there is *ZERO chance that the backup data written by the VTL is NOT on the same storage as IBM i itself. Also be sure that multiple servers aren't pouring data into this same storage thus causing performance issues.

Additionally one needs to understand a full recovery such as when your data center burns or floods. How hard will it be to get to a point where your VTL is available to use for recovering IBM i? If that requires a SAN rebuild and then a VMWare rebuild and then a VTL install and then data recovery to thee SAN and finally you can recover IBM i that might not work well in your recover time line!

In short this type of solution requires many more parts than a standalone VTL solution. Personaly I want a very clear and comfortable understanding of the reliability of my IBM i backup solution.

I am presuming that nobody really minds that the VTL vendor they are using
is not "approved" by IBM?

Mostly true. THE key question we ask is "Can I do a "D" Mode IPL from your device." If they hesitate even for a second, Walk Away. Then of course assure that they properly emulate a popular IBM library such as the 3584 or TS3x00. All the ones mentioned in this thread by me and others at this point answer these questions correctly.

That said support is important. IBM generally does not hang up the phone when you say SPHiNX or Cybernetics. They know of and hear of these things regularly. They WILL at least work with you to help with what they see not working.

An example: One of the vendors when we moved their VTL from POWER7 to POWER8 and importantly from a FC #5901 card to a FC #EJ10 card would randomly disconnect from IBM i. (EJ10 was brand new at that time) IBM pointed out what they were seeing on the IBM i side and the VTL vendor responded by sending a tech with a special SAS logging device. With data from that device the vendor was quickly able to correct their software to work with the FC #EJ10 card. They also quickly added a FC #EJ10 card to their lab.

- Larry

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 2:49 PM DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I work a LOT with both ETI SPHiNX and with the Cybernetics VTLs. I have
also worked with Dell/EMC units.

40TB of RAID storage is very cheap today and easily supported by all
three of these vendors without the complication and expense of SAN for
storage.

All support Fiber connectivity and the SPHiNX and Cybernetics units
support SAS as well.

While I'm not sure you could directly connect any of these to the
Protectier and migrate directly you can certainly connect to IBM i and
use DUPTAP or the BRMS equivalent to dup the tapes to the new unit you
select.

For the user interface I prefer the SPHiNX. I find it simpler and more
intuitive to use. Reliable system and good support.

If you want to replicate your data to a remote site for automatic
off-site backups then the Cybernetics unit is your choice. Their
deduplication technology can end up sending your nightly backup between
sites in 15 minutes! (Of course YMMV!) Of course thie means your local
backups are deduplicated as well and thus consume vastly less storage as
well.

Both the SPHiNX and Cybernetics units are available in various sizes of
rack-mounted units from 1 to 4 U, redundant power, various RAID
selections and generally use 7.2K RPM SAS drives (You NEVER want to use
SATA drives in RAID. Don't do it)

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.Frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com - Personal Development IBM i timeshare service.
www.iInTheCloud.com - Commercial IBM i Cloud Hosting.

On 5/8/2020 9:40 PM, Laurence Chiu wrote:

On a project to setup a brand new Power system, migrating an application
from an existing application.

The current setup has ProtecTier VTL but that's not available in the new
setup of course.

>From a business point of view we need to migrate across some 22TB of VTL
backups from ProtecTier to the new VTL.

Talking to IBM they have recommended we purchase DSI based VTL's because
- it's the only VTL they certify
- They can connect the DSI units to ProtecTier and suck all the backups
across over FC (on prem) or FC over IP if we want to do it remotely
- all the BRMS metadata would be maintained

Their pricing would stretch our budget somewhat so I have gone looking at
other solutions. Looking at this article there seem to be at least 5 VTL
solutions that are available.

https://www.helpsystems.com/resources/articles/virtual-tape-considerations-ibm-i

I don't know what certified or approved by IBM means but if the VTL
solutions just look like tape drives to IBMi, then does it matter? The
vendor can provide the support if required.

Another vendor with whom I have been discussion says they can do exactly
the same. Connect their appliance over FC to ProtecTier and duplicate the
backups and maintain metadata. We would deploy their appliance and use

an

IBM Storwize V5030 SAN with 12 4TB SATA drives for the VTL storage for
about 40TB in RAID 6 . They are only 7.2K drives but fast enough for a

VTL

I would think. The pricing here is quite attractive.

I am sure not all shops presented on this list are using DSI so just
wondering what people are using and their experiences.

Thanks

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