RE: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions -- MIDRANGE-L

Laurence,

Here's another link to review.

https://ibmsystemsmag.com/Power-Systems/12/2019/Got-ProtecTIER-Lets-Talk

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Rob Berendt
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:31 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

Does ProtectTier allow VTL to physical tape copying? If so, could you hook up a new VTL and copy to that, and then that could replicate to the like model remote VTL.
Failing the ProtectTier connection then could you DUPMEDBRM from the ProtectTier to a new local VTL which would then replicate to the like model remote VTL?
In the future you could decide to repurpose the like model VTL from the parent company to some more suitable location for the subsidiary.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Laurence Chiu
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Unfortunately it's a little bit more complex than that.

They organization in question is a large financial services company with a
semi-independent subsidiary. What we are trying to do is move a key
application running on Power servers on the main company to separate
instances running in separate data centers for the subsidiary. There are no
plans for the main company to move off their ProtecTier solutions but the
subsidiary company is setting up a completely independent Power Server
infrastructure.

This secondary infrastructure will need to be fed images from the
development LPAR for a few months during transition and also transfer over
7 years worth of archive data in ProtecTier VTL format.

I did have an email conversation with DSI and they said they could import
VTL backups from ProtecTier but the two VTLs have to be fiber channel
connected. Clearly that's not an option for this organization because the
subsidiary is 1500 km away from the main company.

I'm not sure you could even do that via DWDM or else we would need to
locate the DSI solution in the primary data center, fiber channel connect
them and do the import and then ship the device to the secondary site. But
that still doesn't answer the question of how to send LPARs over for a few
months on a regular basis.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020, 8:42 AM Rob Berendt <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just to add some FUD but is this a "one or the other" situation? Meaning
are the ProtecTier and the DSI interchangeable, or is it only a one way
migration from ProtecTier to DSI?
Instead of just adding a new unit you may have to migrate the existing
unit first, then add your new unit.

If it is a complete migration with no continuation of interchangeability
then you have to ask yourself if having the migration path makes it
worthwhile to go to DSI or should you just go to whatever solution would
best fit in the long run.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Laurence Chiu
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 2:22 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
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Just to add more data to my original query.

The first site uses ProtecTier as their backup mechanism. I looked
everywhere in online documentation but cannot determine if this software
writes backups in a proprietary format or in the same format it would write
to a tape.

Since ProtecTier is no longer sold by IBM, they recommend DSI products. So
in the second data center we would probably have to purchase DSI VTL since
at least IBM recommends them and on the website they say they have a
migration process from ProtecTier. The interesting question now is how to
transfer all the backups taken in the primary site into ProtectTier to be
imported into the DSI virtual tape library.

If they are not in a proprietary format, could we just transmit them over
the wire and then get DSI to import them as if they were coming from a
physical tape drive? I guess that's a question we need to ask the vendors.

The ugliest solution of course is to dump all the backups back to physical
tape and ship them over but that really is a last resort.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020, 1:55 AM Rob Berendt <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

DUPTAP can be an issue with a BRMS shop because you would then lose the
object tracking.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
DrFranken
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:57 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
the content is safe.

I would check into the migration feature though. I am not aware, but
could be wrong, that it actually migrates the tapes between VTLs.

When we move tapes between VTLs we do this:

Hook VTL #1 to an IBM i Partition.
Hook VTL #2 to that same IBM i Partition.

DUPTAP from VTL #1 to VTL #2.

Maybe not the slickest or simplest but it CAN easily be coded in a CL
program for example. AND it works.

Downside of course is that both VTLs must co-exist in the same DC at
least for a while.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.Frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com - Personal Development IBM i timeshare service.
www.iInTheCloud.com - Commercial IBM i Cloud Hosting.

On 2/12/2020 4:34 PM, Laurence Chiu wrote:

Thanks that's very helpful. I was aware of DSI as a suggested

replacement

for IBM's VTL but I didn't know there was an migration path available.

Will be interesting to know how you could migrate the volumes created

by

IBM's VTL in one data center to another one some several thousand
kilometers away.

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 9:47 AM Steinmetz, Paul via MIDRANGE-L <
midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Laurence Chiu

You may want to check this out.

DSI VTLs are available for purchase in IBM i environments and can

replace

IBM ProtecTIER(r).

IBM resells Dynamic Solutions International virtual tape libraries for

IBM

i environments

https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=897/ENUS218-064&infotype=AN&subtype=CA

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Laurence Chiu
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 2:48 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <

midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

I just found out that in location A which is two sites, ProtecTier is

used

as the VTL solution to backup one site and transmit backups to second

site.

We are creating a new site but want to be able to transmit backups

from

that site as well as restore many years of backups. From my research

it

appears today ProtecTier is no longer sold by IBM. If it uses a

proprietary

backup format then we will face some challenges getting today data
transferred. If it's standard tape them I guess one way or to dump the
virtual backups to a physical tape (s) and restore from that.

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 9:06 AM Rob Berendt <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Tough to know where to begin with that last question...
In a BRMS managed shop I would need to see some explanation as to why
anything would be saved to a save file and then saved to tape

(virtual

or otherwise).

Ignoring that, when you use a VTL (Virtual Tape Library, not to be
confused with a tape device or a virtual tape image catalog) the IBM

i

thinks it's saving to an IBM tape library. To the IBM i this tape
library could have one or more drives. And the IBM i thinks the
library could have a vast number of tape cartridges loaded into the
tape library. So the IBM i sends the data to the VTL like it was a
mylar tape library. Now, how the VTL stores the data on it's disk
drives is it's own business and is very proprietary between brands.
And how they replicate the data between two VTL's of the same
manufacturer is again proprietary and is NOT done by DUPMED or
DUPMEDBRM. Therefore you cannot just plop a VTL from a different

manufacturer in there and have them duplicate the tapes between each

other.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf

Of

Laurence Chiu
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:45 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Compatibility between different vendors VTL solutions

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
and know the content is safe.

This is somewhat vague but why I asked about VTL solutions I was told

this.

Backups are managed using BRMS.

The application saves the DB to a Save file and then saves the Save
File to tape. So perhaps the storage appliance is only being used as

a

virtual tape device replicating what you would do with a physical

tape

or autoloader?

So the formats are not proprietary?

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 1:47 PM DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

It would be 'very unlikely' that two different VTLs could exchange
data unless they were both connected to an IBM i partition where you
could utilize DUPTAP from one to another.

From the three vendors that I've worked with significantly the
format of the data on disk as well as the connection between systems
are very different between them. I expect that difference would
extend to virtually all vendors.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.Frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com - Personal Development IBM i timeshare service.
www.iInTheCloud.com - Commercial IBM i Cloud Hosting.

On 2/10/2020 4:36 PM, Laurence Chiu wrote:

I am in a situation where in one data center there is a VTL
solution. I want to implement in another data center a VTL
solution and then copy

all

the tape backups from the first to the second data center.
Assuming the backup is using BRMS do I need to keep the same
hardware solution at

each

DC? So for example if one DC is using say a Dell VTL could I use
DSI

at

the second and still be able to migrate and use all the backups
taken

on

the Dell?

I'm actually trying to find out what specific VTL solution is used
in

the

first DC but thought I would ask the generic question to know my

options.

Thanks

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