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  1.  Home
  2. MIDRANGE-L
  3. May 2015

RE: Netserver no start when internet down

If the name of the system is "DILGARD" then the default name for the
Netserver is "QDILGARD".  Dollars to donuts, that's where that came from.

As to Charles comment if I read him correctly he's worried about security.
I believe he's concerned that the DNS request is one of the vectors bad guys
will use to break into you company and find those systems that don't have
the proper patches etc. on them.  The DNS request is one way they find the
system in the first place, and that's how they defeat the firewall.    I
happen to agree with his sentiment. Small or not, if you make yourself a
target, someone will shoot at you. 

Ideally only the internal DNS server does the request outside of the
organization then passes it back to the internal systems. 

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff
Crosby
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 10:13 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Netserver no start when internet down

Rob,

QDilgard is the netserver name, always has been. Too many years ago to
remember why I did it that way.

I probably didn't explain myself well enough in asking Charles that question
as the thread has morphed a bit.  I would never expect (or want) an external
DNS server to find my IBM i netserver.  I was more interested in internal
workstations and the IBM i being able to find internet sites if the internal
DNS servers were down.



On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 10:54 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Later on I said that an internet one might be ok for backup but I 
> would have put it further down the list.
> But you're saying it finds DILGARD from one of the Windows based servers.
> Ok.
> So maybe, if you weren't doing the host table entry thing then perhaps 
> Qdilgard needs to be added to the Windows DNS servers also?
> But part of me is skeptical that Qdilgard would have been in your 
> internet based one.  I would have thought that only Dilgard would have
been there.
> Does your internet based one support Qdilgard?
>
> OTOH, Is it really this "Q" issue?  Because we have no "Q" entry for 
> our system name in our host table entry.  And the only entry in our 
> DNS is for a long abandoned IP address.  (Apparently I have some 
> cleanup of that to
> do.)
>
>
> Rob Berendt
> --
> IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 
> Mail to:  2505 Dekko Drive
>           Garrett, IN 46738
> Ship to:  Dock 108
>           6928N 400E
>           Kendallville, IN 46755
> http://www.dekko.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From:   Jeff Crosby <jlcrosby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To:     Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date:   05/15/2015 10:39 AM
> Subject:        Re: Netserver no start when internet down
> Sent by:        "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> No.  It finds it from the first internal Windows DNS server.  I don't 
> understand what you're getting at.  What does this have to do with my 
> question to Charles?  My point is that if you're a very small company 
> (like
> Dilgard) you don't have the luxury of redundant everything internal. 
> Since you can have many DNS servers configured, why not have at least 
> one of them be external?
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 10:25 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > If you run a NSLOOKUP the only place it can find the IP address of 
> > your IBM i is "out there" and not in any of your windows based DNS
servers?
> >
> > C:\Users\ROB>nslookup gdihq
> > Server:  gdsdns.dekko-1
> > Address:  10.10.4.250
> >
> > Name:    gdihq.dekko-1
> > Address:  10.17.6.33
> >
> > Says that it found gdihq on dns server gdsdns.
> >
> > From IBM i:
> >
> > NSLOOKUP HOSTNAME('gdihq.dekko-1')
> >
> > Server:         10.10.4.250
> > Address:        10.10.4.250#53
> > Name:   gdihq.dekko-1
> > Address: 10.17.6.33
> > Press ENTER to end terminal session.
> >
> > from
> > CFGTCP
> > 12. Change TCP/IP domain information Domain name server:
> >   Internet address . . . . . . .   '10.10.4.250'
> >   Internet address . . . . . . .   '10.10.4.252'
> >   Internet address . . . . . . .   '10.17.4.180'
> >
> > Rob Berendt
> > --
> > IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 
> > Mail to:  2505 Dekko Drive
> >           Garrett, IN 46738
> > Ship to:  Dock 108
> >           6928N 400E
> >           Kendallville, IN 46755
> > http://www.dekko.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:   Jeff Crosby <jlcrosby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To:     Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date:   05/15/2015 10:19 AM
> > Subject:        Re: Netserver no start when internet down
> > Sent by:        "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >
> >
> > Charles,
> >
> > "Those DNS servers are the only ones that should be contacting 
> > internet based DNS servers."
> >
> > Why?  We're a small company.  We have 2 Windows servers, both 
> > virtual, serving DNS.  Both on the one and only SAN we have.  Why 
> > not have an additional DNS server "out there" in case the SAN has an
issue?
> >
> > Just curious.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Charles Wilt 
> > <charles.wilt@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Once it's started, it doesn't matter so much.
> > >
> > > IMO, you should have at least primary and backup internal DNS servers.
> > > Those DNS servers are the only ones that should be contacting 
> > > internet based DNS servers.
> > >
> > > Charles
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Jeff Crosby
> <jlcrosby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It all makes sense to me.  But I'm kind of amazed we never 
> > > > noticed
> it
> > > > during other internet outages.  We very seldom experience an 
> > > > outage
> > but
> > > > over a 10+ year period you'd think we would have noticed it before.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Jim Oberholtzer < 
> > > > midrangel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree with putting the system name/IP entry in the local 
> > > > > host
> > table,
> > > > > that's critical for several things not just the Netserver.  
> > > > > There
> is
> > a
> > > > > reasonable alternative.  IBM i has a DNS server built in to it.
> Most
> > > > folks
> > > > > chose not to use it but it's there.   You could simply configure
> > that
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > backup to the main DNS and now your back to only one place to
> change
> > > it.
> > > > > You would only put the addresses/domains that are internal to 
> > > > > your
> > shop
> > > > in
> > > > > it but then as long as either the M$ DNS is running  --or-- 
> > > > > your
> IBM
> > i
> > > > > server is running you'll get DNS resolution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now some will immediately spring up and claim that auditors 
> > > > > will
> > never
> > > > > accept an IBM i running DNS for whatever reasons Microsoft has
> > managed
> > > to
> > > > > convince them about using anything but AD as your DNS server, 
> > > > > but
> > > that's
> > > > > really all FUD.  If you keep up with the security PTFs and the
> other
> > > > > updates
> > > > > IBM puts out, there is really no issue with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jim Oberholtzer
> > > > > Chief Technical Architect
> > > > > Agile Technology Architects
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > > > Scott
> > > > > Klement
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:23 PM
> > > > > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > > > > Subject: Re: Netserver no start when internet down
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff,
> > > > >
> > > > > NetServer needs to know it's host and IP address.  The problem
> with
> > IP
> > > > > address is that the system can have many of them, so how does 
> > > > > it
> > know
> > > > which
> > > > > one is the "main" IP address?
> > > > >
> > > > > So what it does is take your hostname (QDILGARD in your case) 
> > > > > and
> > try
> > > to
> > > > > perform a DNS lookup to get the IP address.  It will then use 
> > > > > that
> > as
> > > the
> > > > > main IP address for NetServer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Apparently your DNS was set up to contact Internet DNS servers 
> > > > > --
> so
> > > the
> > > > > lookup would fail (or time out) before getting a result for
> > QDILGARD.
> > > > > Therefore it could not start the NetServer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Putting QDILGARD in the host table means that it'll always be 
> > > > > able
> > to
> > > > find
> > > > > it's own IP address, even if the network is down.  So this is
> > > considered
> > > > a
> > > > > "best practice" to always have the IP address that's connected 
> > > > > to
> > the
> > > > > system
> > > > > name be in the host table.  Granted, this does mean that 
> > > > > there's
> one
> > > more
> > > > > place to change it if the IP address changes...  but as long 
> > > > > as
> this
> > > (and
> > > > > the DNS server) are the only places, that shouldn't be too
> > > cumbersome.  A
> > > > > lot better than being down when the Internet is offline!
> > > > >
> > > > > -SK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/14/2015 1:47 PM, Jeff Crosby wrote:
> > > > > > I learned something this morning and thought I would pass it
> along
> > in
> > > > > > case it helps someone else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The day started with the internet being down.  In doing 
> > > > > > backup
> > checks
> > > > > > I noticed the BRMS recovery reports had not been copied to a
> > Windows
> > > > > > file server within the domain.  Reason is because Netserver 
> > > > > > was
> > not
> > > > > started.
> > > > > > Tried to reset and start Netserver and got this in QSYSOPR 
> > > > > > (I
> > > stripped
> > > > > > out some portions):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Message ID . . . . . . :   CPIB683
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date sent  . . . . . . :   05/14/15      Time sent  . . . . . .
> :
> > > > > > 07:16:51
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Message . . . . :   IBM i Support for Windows Network
> Neighborhood
> > > > (IBM i
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    NetServer) was unable to start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cause . . . . . :   The required IBM i NetServer job QZLSSERVER
> > was
> > > > > unable
> > > > > > to
> > > > > >    start because of reason code 13.  See the following 
> > > > > > reason
> > codes
> > > > > > and their
> > > > > >    meanings:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      13 - The retrieved host IP address of 6.0.0.7 is invalid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Recovery  . . . :   Complete recovery for the specified reason
> > code.
> > > > > >    13 - Correct the name configured for IBM i NetServer 
> > > > > > which conflicts with an existing name on the network, and 
> > > > > > try the
> > request
> > > > > again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Netserver name has not changed since day one so I opened 
> > > > > > a
> PMR
> > > (by
> > > > > > phone since no internet either!).  No idea what the 6.0.0.7 
> > > > > > IP
> > > address
> > > > is
> > > > > .
> > > > > > . .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After the internet came back up just for fun I tried 
> > > > > > starting Netserver again and it worked.  Huh?  What does the 
> > > > > > internet
> have
> > to
> > > do
> > > > > with it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rochester called in response to the PMR and she said she 
> > > > > > could
> fix
> > > > that.
> > > > > > In CHGTCPDMN we have 3 DNS servers listed, 1 internal 
> > > > > > Windows
> and
> > 2
> > > > > > Comcast.  The 2 external have something to do with it.  So 
> > > > > > she
> had
> > me
> > > > > > add the Netserver name "QDILGARD" to the host table entries 
> > > > > > on
> the
> > > IBM
> > > > > > i so it would find the IP address for the i there.  With or
> > without
> > > > > > internet.  She was aware of this behavior but could not 
> > > > > > answer
> > why.
> > > > > > She was curious herself, said she would ask the developer 
> > > > > > when
> he
> > > > > > arrived, and report back to me via the PMR.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I waited until now hoping the PMR would have something of an 
> > > > > > explanation, but it still does not.  If I get something I 
> > > > > > will
> > pass
> > > it
> > > > > along.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> > mailing
> > > > list
> > > > > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, 
> > > > > unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > > > > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > > > > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, 
> > > > > please
> > take
> > > a
> > > > > moment to review the archives at
> > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> > mailing
> > > > list
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> > > > > unsubscribe, or change list options,
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> > > > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jeff Crosby
> > > > VP Information Systems
> > > > UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> > > > P.O. Box 13369
> > > > Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> > > > 260-422-7531
> > > > www.dilgardfoods.com
> > > >
> > > > The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the 
> > > > opinion of
> > my
> > > > company.  Unless I say so.
> > > > --
> > > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> mailing
> > > list
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> > > > unsubscribe, or change list options,
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> > > > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please 
> > > > take a moment to review the archives at 
> > > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) 
> > > mailing
> > list
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> > > take a moment to review the archives at 
> > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Crosby
> > VP Information Systems
> > UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> > P.O. Box 13369
> > Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> > 260-422-7531
> > www.dilgardfoods.com
> >
> > The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of 
> > my company.  Unless I say so.
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) 
> > mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To 
> > subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please 
> > take a moment to review the archives at 
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) 
> > mailing
> list
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jeff Crosby
> VP Information Systems
> UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> P.O. Box 13369
> Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> 260-422-7531
> www.dilgardfoods.com
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of 
> my company.  Unless I say so.
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing 
> list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, 
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>
>
> --
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>
>


--
Jeff Crosby
VP Information Systems
UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
P.O. Box 13369
Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
260-422-7531
www.dilgardfoods.com

The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
company.  Unless I say so.
--
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